Food Network Obsessed

Andrew Zimmern on His Latchkey Childhood & the Love Language of Food

Episode Summary

Culinary icon Andrew Zimmern talks about being a birthday week person and what he feels will define the next decade of his life. He shares why he is optimistic about the ever-evolving world and the importance of elevating others to create equity before responding to a statement about being a human food encyclopedia and why he somewhat disagrees with it. He talks through his childhood in New York City and how fear, trauma and too much freedom shaped his perspective. Andrew reminisces on memories traveling the world with his late father and the myriad of cultural experiences he owes to him. He reveals the duplicitous journey to finally pitching a show and panicking to come up with thirty episodes on the spot for Bizarre Foods. Andrew describes the personal premise of his new program, Family Dinner, and why a lifelong desire to be a part of a family drove him to create it. Andrew talks about the mythical, magical power of food to bring people together before settling the great debate - is a hotdog a sandwich?

Episode Notes

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Episode Transcription

Jaymee Sire (00:02):

Hello and welcome to Food Network Obsessed. This is the podcast where we dish on all things, food with your favorite chefs, food influencers and food network stars. I'm your host, Jaymee Sire. And I'm so happy to be back with a brand new episode. I hope you all enjoyed your start to summer while food network obsessed was on a small break, but now we are back with brand new episodes and guests, and I am so excited to bring you today's conversation. He is a food legend and regarded as one of the most knowledgeable personalities in the food world. He's on the pod today talking about why we gather around the table and how growing up in New York city with a lot of freedom really shaped his culinary perspective. He is an Emmy award winning and four time James Beard award winning TV personality, chef, and writer. And he's the host of Magnolia networks, Family Dinner. It's Andrew Zimmern. Andrew, welcome to the podcast. You and I met while co-hosting an episode of Beat Bobby Flay that has yet to air, but I have been a fan for quite some time. So thank you so much for joining us and I wanna wish you an early happy birthday. We are recording this before your birthday, July 4th, you’re turning 61. How do you feel about birthdays in general?

Andrew Zimmern (01:29):

Love them.

Jaymee Sire (01:31):

Are you a birthday week, birthday month guy, or

Andrew Zimmern (01:35):

I'm a birthday week person because the older you get there's the family and then a dinner out with friends and then we'll have some people over to the house. So it winds up being bigger than I would like. Mm-Hmm just from a production politeness family size issue. And I don't have the ego about it that says I have to have a week devoted to me. It's just the way it, it goes down. July 4th, I'm convinced not just because it's my birthday. It's a great birthday to have because everyone is around. Yes. And people are having like barbecue. Like, so it, it, there's just a lot of collegial awareness and people are dying to go do something and everything is closed and people have the day off and,

Jaymee Sire (02:22):

And there's fireworks,

Andrew Zimmern (02:24):

Fireworks. And there, it's not a gift giving thing. Yeah. Right. It's not Christmas. That's true. Right. So it's a great birthday to have. I do firmly believe age is a number. I guess I'm blessed that when I tell people my age that they're generally surprised I was well, thank you. It's very kind. So it's what my number is. I'm a big believer of continuing to do and do and do and do in life. So I'm just gonna keep on doing.

Jaymee Sire (02:57):

Well. That said, how do you, how do you feel like this next decade is going to be defined?

Andrew Zimmern (03:02):

My best ever.

Jaymee Sire (03:04):

I love that.

Andrew Zimmern (03:05):

And I don't say that in sort of a trite greeting card way or in that traditional sort of, Hey, we have to psych ourselves up to survive in, in the world today. The world is very tough today. It's very divisive. It's changing very, very quickly, especially for those of us in the world of entertainment and media. That's one of the silos that is changing the fastest. Although, as someone who works on a lot of different projects, every other industry out there is changing just as fast as ours mm-hmm , which is, which is scary. I think that this decade, well, it's scary for some people. I think this decade is a big hinge event, a decade long hinge event for, for planet earth. There are some existential elements to it like climate crisis, but you know, every industry is changing. I just gave a talk to the society for corporate governance and they had lawyers who deal with corporate governance from every big corporation in America was attending mm-hmm .

Andrew Zimmern (04:00):

There were 500 companies represented across the, I mean from construction companies to media companies, right. And everything in between and every single lawyer, corporate governance officer and lawyer that I spoke to said the same thing. Everything in our industry is changing. And it made me realize that that's, that's one of the things contributing to sort of like the general angst on we and free floating anxiety. That society feels at large. So why am I so bullish about the decade ahead? I'm neither glass half full or half empty. I'm a, I, I'm a strong believer that the glass is refillable. Mm. And I believe in, in human beings to change things, I believe in the youngest, what is the name of the youngest generation? That, or is it gen Z?

Jaymee Sire (04:50):

I think we're at gen Z. Now we're running on letters.

Andrew Zimmern (04:53):

Okay. Yeah. So, so I believe in that generation and the one behind it, my, my son's generation, I guess, would be sub gen Z.

Jaymee Sire (05:03):

Andrew Zimmern (05:04):

And, and, and I just, I think the capacity for humankind to solve problems is undervalued and understated. We have always found a way to solve our problems. And so I have a tremendous amount of hope for myself. Personally, I've spent decades trying to create businesses, nonprofits to develop a platform that allows me to solve problems in areas of life that I believe I can contribute to. And I got there at age 60. And so now that, that the next decade is enjoying, you know, I'll give you an example. My production company started out just producing stuff for me for the travel channel. Right. Mm-hmm Well, now we have seven series in production. I'm in one of them. Wow. Right. So that's the kind of growth you look for when you talk about lifting other people up. When we talk about old white men stepping aside, I mean, I'll just name it.

Andrew Zimmern (06:08):

That's the, the sort of like when someone says, what are you doing to, to, to do your part for that? It's like by lifting up other people, you know, we, we just completed a series with a hmong chef named Yia Vang who is the monger, an, an ethnic tribal people from Southeastern Asia, mountainous people. They've never had their own country. And the largest number of hmong came to Minnesota in the seventies. And they're very, very, very proud people with incredible food. And we did this amazing series with Yia and I'm so excited to be able to elevate hmong with the statement that it makes is that their cuisine is as valid as any others. Right. And, and if you extend the idea of food to people, their people are as valid that's, that is the essence of what social justice and equity is all about.

Andrew Zimmern (07:09):

And so it's a, it's a really cool thing. I'm finally, now that COVID is over, I'm an ambassador for the United Nations world food program, and a couple other big independent international rescue committees that Einstein founded in 1939. I do a lot of work with Tony Milland in that group. So I'm finally getting back over to Africa and into some places that are experiencing crisis and conflict, and being able to tell stories over there to help move the needle to help that part of the world. So it's, that's sort of like, what's ahead. Mm-Hmm, expanding our little hospitality company, which is growing. I'm excited. I just got two dogs. They're they're a year and a half and six months old. So I get to do the next decade with them. Yeah. My kid is 17 and a half. So when I think of the next decade, I could start crying. If I think about what he's gonna look like at 27, when, when we, when you remind me at some party, you nudge me and say, do you remember 10 years ago? When I said, what's your next decade? You'll look like, how'd it turn out? So yeah, I'm, I'm really, I'm real on, on the selfish side, in terms of my own life. I'm really looking forward to it.

Jaymee Sire (08:21):

I love that. I love, you know, like you said, you know, change is coming it's here. And it can be really scary, but I think if you embrace it, you know, that that can be really exciting. And you can hear the excitement in your voice about what's to come over the next 10 years.

Andrew Zimmern (08:38):

I hope everyone's circled what you just said, because that to me is one of the, your, your suggestion for listeners to embrace change is something that in my experience is the only change is going to happen. It is inevitable. Everything changes, therefore as human beings, the only thing we can control is our, is our thoughts and attitudes about something mm-hmm , that's it.

Jaymee Sire (09:06):

Andrew Zimmern (09:08):

Seriously. I mean, if anyone thinks about it, that is the only thing that we have control over.

Jaymee Sire (09:13):

It's so true.

Andrew Zimmern (09:14):

You can, you can wanna have a BLT sandwich, all you want for lunch , but you, you know, stuff happens and the restaurants out of bacon, you can't find a ripe tomato. No, one's got toast. I mean, whatever your issue is, there's a chance it may not happen, but your thoughts and attitudes are the things that you can control. And I love hearing someone else say that because I believe it is a, it is a very noble truth.

Jaymee Sire (09:41):

Yeah, I think so, too. I think that's the only way to continue to evolve and, and move along in this life. And, and I wanna talk about the life you've lived too, because that is wildly interesting and vast there's this quote from eater about you that says Zimmern knows more about the foods of the world and the history of modern astronomy than anyone else in our solar system, he is a walking, talking, food encyclopedia, and a true omnivore. First of all, do you agree with that statement?

Andrew Zimmern (10:13):

No.

Jaymee Sire (10:14):

Why?

Andrew Zimmern (10:15):

It's extremely flattering. I think I am one of the people who is that, and, and I think that's really important. None of us have that level of terminal uniqueness. Mm I've been so lucky and so blessed in my life that the series of jobs, events, opportunities have added up to my, having a front row seat to more flavors, more techniques, more wisdom, more learning, but I could have ignored all that. I'm a vacuum of learning. I, I am, I am so insanely curious about any new thing that I see. It's dangerous. You know, our board here at my office is like every week they tell me, stop doing new stuff. And I was like, well, that's how I learn. , that's what I'm excited about. That's what makes me happy. And so while it's very flattering and there is a lot of truth to it, there are other people that I've met who are right up there.

Andrew Zimmern (11:21):

That, that being said, when I talk to them, they've, they've not visited 177 countries. They've not eaten with 26 of the now I think 42 or 44 protected first peoples of the world, folks that you can't go in and spend time with, unless you do it through the government and are approved by not only the tribal elders, whatever governance system they have, but by the conservation officers assigned to keep those peoples safe. Wow. And living they’re in an ancient pathway. I've had the opportunity to do that. I think as the world has been closing down around us and becoming more divisive, I think it's harder and harder to do it. I'm you know, the, the, Souk at Aleppo in Syria was written about in the Bible and in the Bible, it calls it the oldest market. Wow. And the, basically the place where everyone should shop , if there was a, if there was a timeout magazine around it, 100 BC, it would recommend the Souk at Aleppo as the place to get all of your, your raisins, wine, and, and olives and cheese and, and handicrafts and clothes.

Andrew Zimmern (12:36):

And it is in every ancient text, they mention that's the only market that's in all of them. It's been bombed into rubble. It doesn't exist anymore. Not only did I spend three days eating and learning and talking to people who are there I still have honey and tahini, wow, from that market. And I, it's dried and crusty in the bottom of a, of a jar, both, but I refuse to use the last spoonful. I still have the jar because of what it represents. It's the last of its kind. Mm. And I find those sorts of things fascinating. So have I had those experiences that other people do not have? Sure. I, I also tend to I, I can't tell you what a colleague said to me yesterday morning on a given topic, I tend to dispose of that information really quickly.

Andrew Zimmern (13:39):

. But I can tell you everything about what I ate in the market. The Souk in Aleppo and that was Obama was president when Asad started bombing his own country and there was essentially civil war erupted, that resulted in the destruction of this incredible, incredible market. I remember everything that I ate there and in what order, I mean, that sort of creepy weird sort of way that is, is quite fascinating. And I've had a lot of young cooks. I, I was in, I, I was on an island in Italy and they were harvesting these very, very thin razor clams, much different than any other. And they were so thin. You couldn't do what you do with like a Pacific razor clam and run your thumb or a knife along the inside of the shell to separate it. And what the, and, and the work of cleaning the razor clams was left to the, the grandmothers in the village.

Andrew Zimmern (14:43):

And they would take a pile of sea salt and put it in. They would criss cross their legs, you know, criss cross applesauce mm-hmm . And they would, they, they, they, the fabric of their dress would create this like bowl between their knees. And they put a half cup of salt there, and they would dip the tip of the razor clam into the salt. The, the animal would open up its shell wide, and then they would run their fingernail down and take the meat out and discard the shell, losing none of the liquid inside. Wow. And, and so that's how I clean razor clams ever since, because it just makes the most sense. So I'm at a food festival about six years ago with, with some really amazing chefs. And we're all trying to help someone clean razor clams for this one dish that they were doing a agua chile or a ceviche with it. And they were all, it was taking them forever. And I just walked over and I dumped a pile of salts on the ground, and I touched the tip to it. The thing opens up and I ran my thumb down and I said, that's how you clean a razor clam. And they just looked at me like I had just like, you know, dropped a new Beyonce album on them. They were like, are you kidding me? And I'm like, well, I learned that from someone. I mean, it's like, that's how,

Jaymee Sire (15:58):

That's how you pass it along.

Andrew Zimmern (16:00):

We learned things. Yeah. We learned things that way, you know? And I've just been in a lot of places. I'm very, very lucky.

Jaymee Sire (16:09):

You talk about this, this desire to learn new things constantly. Let's talk about where that came from, because you grew up in New York city as the child of two creatives. You describe yourself as the ultimate latchkey kid, but I'm curious, how did that upbringing really initiate this desire to explore and experiment the way that you do?

Andrew Zimmern (16:34):

The, the greatest human motivator evolve, fear.

Jaymee Sire (16:37):

Andrew Zimmern (16:38):

And human beings don't change when you're fat, dumb and happy. I've spent a lot of years fat, dumb, and happy. So I've analyzed this.

Jaymee Sire (16:48):

Scientific evidence.

Andrew Zimmern (16:49):

I don’t learn, well l don't learn a lot when things are going well, you know, if you make blueberry muffins out of, you know, an Ina Garten cookbook and they turn out perfectly, you're like, well, I got that nailed onward. You know, if you make a mistake, you learn something, right? My upbringing was filled with a, a lot of fear, a lot of happy times, but a lot of fear, a lot of childhood trauma, a lot of, of really scary stuff that motivated me in some very unhealthy ways and put me at a very young age, into a world of addiction and alcoholism that got worse and worse and worse as I got older but also really increased the belief system in my head that I had to provide for myself, anything that I, that I might need or might want. And there's a difference between needs and wants.

Andrew Zimmern (17:44):

Right? Mm-hmm I want pizza for dinner. Mm-Hmm I mean, I get it and I'll be fine as long as I eat. I need to eat something tonight. Right. Mm-hmm . So I had to, I had to learn a lot and I had, I had so many wonderful role models and so many incredible people in my life that somehow broke through my armor enough to, to, to keep me learning and keep me growing. But it really was fear and not that fear of missing out that, that so many people talk about these days, but just fear that I wouldn't know how to handle something later on. If I didn't find out myself mm-hmm . And I, I think that's been a very positive, when channeled the right way it's been a positive force in my life. It's taken me, let's just say from age 20 I sobered up at 30, 1st 10 years, I was sober

Andrew Zimmern (18:39):

I was still an absolute wreck. So it's really been the last 20 years that the healthy chickens have come home to roost and I'm actually, you know, I still make mistakes. I still do, I mean, all human beings do. Sure. I, you know, I, I make relationship mistakes, work mistakes, you know, crossword puzzle, mistakes, you know, cooking. I mean, we, we're human beings. We make mistakes all the time, but I'm no longer transmitting the trauma of my youth. And I am not always living in fear. So it's a lot of huge growth that gives you a tremendous amount of freedom as well. But yeah, I had to, you know, my, both my parents loved to eat and travel. I mean, obsessively. So by the time I was 13, 14 years old, I'd been around the world four or five times with my dad.

Andrew Zimmern (19:30):

Mm. My dad was a very intimate friend of James Beard. Craig Clayborn, the, the whole west village gay food mafia was, was where I, I grew up in a Laka full family. My dad, who was a a Navy veteran world war II, you know, three years in the south Pacific scene, horrific action came back a, you know, a, a, a, a leader at University of Wisconsin at Madison, where he went to school, helped build a giant size company in New York and was very successful by anyone's standards was also a very closeted gay man until 1966. When he came out to certain members of his family, my mother always knew she just loved him so much, and he wanted a child. So they married and had me. And then my father met the love of his life, who he was in a relationship with from 1966, till 2017, when they both passed away.

Andrew Zimmern (20:36):

Finally in the last years of their life, being able to marry legally in the state of Maine, where they had moved, but to have two dads who nurtured me and loved me in a very, very educational, gracious, loving, kind, empathetic way. And a mother who wrote books about shells and, and throughout the Caribbean and Latin America allowed me to see culture in the world in a much, much different way than most young people do. I had to spend two weeks out of the month with my dad, right? Your parents are separating mm-hmm and you're back and forth. And so if my father had to go to Italy for four days on business, I went with him. Wow. And as a young kid to do that and experience the things I experienced with him on the road, sort of, I'm a pale version of my dad.

Andrew Zimmern (21:29):

my dad was bigger, smarter, funnier, more outgoing, better traveled, extremely well spoken. Whenever I'm having this conversation about him, he makes me smile. And I, Jamie, you would've loved my dad knowing you, you know, I, I don't know you well, but I know you well enough. Mm-Hmm, that, you know, your humanity comes screaming across to everyone who meets you. And I have a couple pictures of my dad in, in my office and you would've loved, everyone loved my father he was just a beloved, beautiful human being. And, and I was lucky. Yeah. So, yeah. Good, good genes, good family in the right position at the same time, you know, kids aren't born with an instruction manual. So, you know, my father greatest generation, the, his, his, his way of dealing with feelings, if he felt something was to recognize it, put it in an aluminum foil ball metaphorically, and shove it as far down into his feelings hole , as he could never letting it see the light of day.

Andrew Zimmern (22:39):

And that's how he survived. That's how he survived the trauma of being a young gay man growing up in the twenties and thirties in New York. It's how he survived in the south Pacific. It's how he survived heavily closeted in the business community of New York in the fifties, which was not the business community of New York in the seventies, which was more open in forgiving. But, you know, my dad's lived through Stonewall and all the other events of the sixties and into the seventies and eighties, and saw 80% of their friends die of aids and all of that stuff. And so it's a, you know, his life was not easy either. Mm-Hmm and he dealt with it one way that was not great for a young kid. Yeah. Right. So, but if you're aware and you're open, and as you said, you pay attention to change. I think I'm, I'm big on talking to my kid about feelings. He tells me to go blank myself. , you know, when I have those conversations with him, but at least I'm having those conversations.

Jaymee Sire (23:41):

Yeah. I think, I think, you know, he'll, he'll look back and be appreciative of those. And, and I know your dad is, is obviously, you know, so was so proud of you and what you've, you know, become and made of your life and, and really carrying on, you know, his passion for travel and learning. And, and obviously people know you for doing that on your iconic show, Bizarre Foods. Mm-Hmm I'm curious though, you know, going back to that original pitch, you know, what was, what was that like and how did it evolve into the, the show that we all know and love?

Andrew Zimmern (24:15):

Oh, it was the worst you'll laugh. Did I not tell you this story? When we, when we met? So I had this idea for a show called the wandering spoon. Okay. I mean, worst, worst working title ever.

Jaymee Sire (24:31):

I feel like you gotta bring that back for something.

Andrew Zimmern (24:33):

Something, right. So I had been collecting tape. I was doing live local news. I would save a thousand dollars, which was a lot of money, 25 years, still a lot of money, but, you know, 25 years ago, 27, 23 years ago pay a couple goofball friends. There were no iPhones or anything. You, you, you bought a little video camera for $300 at the, at the local Best Buy. And we would shoot tape. And I, and I'd start, I, I started to collect tape at live local news the channel that I was working on and I put together a reel and I showed this what was essentially was a talent reel mm-hmm right. Just based on me. And then I had paper, we would build these decks. I mean, you, you didn't have laptops. Weren't capable of it at that time.

Jaymee Sire (25:24):

Andrew Zimmern (25:25):

so we would actually like Xerox the art and cut it and glue it and make these folders

Jaymee Sire (25:32):

Like a science project.

Andrew Zimmern (25:33):

yeah, they were super precious. Like, you know, my friend and I, and, and my ex-wife sometimes would make these things and, and, you know, so that when I went to New York, I could hand them out to folks. And it took me three years to find any television executive that would take a blind pitch with unknown talent based on nothing. Mm. And there was a young woman who had just been promoted from intern to whatever the lowest level job was at food network. And her name was Allison Paige. Very famously helped build several different networks for what is now the discovery group, a group of lifestyle channels that at one point scripts owned and a whole bunch of different entities, but includes food network and HDTV and travel channel, etc. And I, I didn't know that she was, I was so happy

Andrew Zimmern (26:32):

I got to have a meeting with an executive. I didn't know that she didn't even have a cubicle. She had to borrow someone else's cubicle, but we met and I pitched her on this idea and she thought I was interesting and funny. And of course it went absolutely nowhere today. She is today. She is running the Magnolia network and is my boss. She's your boss. Yeah. Today. which I love, but you know, it, it was, you know, no one wanted to hear this idea. And finally it was actually through pitching to Allison. I decided I don't wanna, there are so many shows on the food network. I would just be lost. I would be put on Sunday morning at 6:00 AM and no one would see it and it would die. and I decided I need to, I need to be the food guy on a non-food network.

Andrew Zimmern (27:22):

One of my mentors had taught me it's better to be the only than to be the best. Mm. And I've taken that advice to heart. And I said, I'm, I'm gonna be the only, so I, I lied my way into a median travel channel. it? I did. I did not know. Can you talk about line at the right time? I got this meeting with Pat Young, who at the time was the general manager of Travel Channel, he had just taken it over. He had bought Tony Bourdain's contract, essentially from the food network. Tony had just completed a show on food network called a Cooks Tour, and he wasn't a fit for there. And Pat wanted to air Cook's Tour on the travel channel while he worked to develop this show with Tony that became no reservations. Tony's show had just launched and was getting really great ratings.

Andrew Zimmern (28:15):

And Pat, it was confirmed for him that he wanted to build a, a network of immersive explorers. And so I go into the room and I pitch him on, I go around the world telling these really serious stories about culture, through food, focusing on the conflict, the crisis, the need for all the things that I believe in now mm-hmm . And he said to me, that's great. That's six episodes of something on PBS that all your peers will, will applaud your new talent. So you probably won't win an award, but the content will be good enough. So you'll probably think you should have and, and then you're right back where you started. But if you can figure out how to make that show 75% entertainment, 25% educational, I will put it on in 170 countries around the world because that's our reach.

Andrew Zimmern (29:10):

Wow. And I went back to my hotel, I said, do I get a half hour of your time tomorrow to pitch you again? He said, sure. And I went back to my hotel room. And my hook that I thought of was stories from the fringe that no one else has told about not chicken breast, but more fermented whale spleen, right. , you know, more walrus, less chicken nugget. And so I went back in and I, I pitched it to him and he was in a room with like 12 people. I was on the top floor of discoveries building in Bethesda at the time, and he handed me a laser pointer and said, tell me the first 32 episodes. And I almost had a heart attack, and luck, because I was unprepared for that completely. I knew the first three trips I wanted to take, but I didn't know them all, but I just started talking the way I'm talking to you now.

Andrew Zimmern (30:03):

And I just started telling one story from every country. And I just kept going around the world with things that I had seen with my mom or, and dad. Right. Mm-hmm . And so I'd been with my mother in Trinidad and Tobago and taken a dive for a giant conk and hauled them up and cleaned them and eaten them and what the locals did with them. And, you know, I had been with my father in the mountains of Italy with goat herders, eating the Italian version of the Greek dish kokoretsi, where you wrap all the organs in the intestine of a young animal, that's never eaten grass, only eaten milk and how delicate and tender those kidneys and livers and intestines were. And, you know, Kazu Marzo the Kasu Marzo that the, the cheese that they let stay soft until the flies lay their eggs in it.

Andrew Zimmern (30:55):

And then they harden the air, dry the shell, the, the outside. So that the, the, when you open up the cheese, the maggots have been living inside of there forever eating and pooping. And that's why the cheese is so creamy and very illegal now, but very delicious . And you know, I I've, at one point I heard stop, stop, and I didn't realize I'd gone. I was up at like 41 episodes and I turned around and they said, okay, we'll buy it. Now go find a production company. That'll make it with you. Cuz I, I was a person. Yeah. So I had to go find a production partner and I did, and we made the first six, they bought eight episodes. I think we had made no, we had made all eight. We were in post production on the last couple, the first one did, well, the second one did like a 10th of a point better.

Andrew Zimmern (31:51):

The third one did a 10th of a point less. And there was just this agonizing groan in the production company in my mind because you want to see steady growth to, to get more. And I knew I had the faith in the network, but I was, I was kind of upset. And the phone rang on a Wednesday afternoon, right after I had gotten the ratings from my agent. And it was the tonight show. And the third episode, one of the bookers had seen, and it was me and Ecuador and I had gone into a shaman's house and he had lit me on fire poured, basically gasoline on me and lit me on fire, beat me with these branches of a poisonous shrub that caused these welts all over my body, broken eggs on me, beat Guinea pigs against me until they expired. I mean, this, he basically was performing what in, in translation was an exorcism.

Andrew Zimmern (32:46):

Mm. And it was very funny. He kept spitting on me because his, his bathing me in his own spit was going to exercise these demons and help draw them out. And it's a very funny 60 seconds of television and unlike anything people had seen before and the Booker saw it and said, can you be in California in time for Friday nights show? And I said, sure. And that Friday night I was on the Tonight Show and Jay and I hit it off and he loved the stories I told. And he said, would you come back? And I said, of course . And the next week the ratings went through the roof. I'm sure. And Pat moved our show at the end of that little mini season. He bought 32 more episodes, moved me onto my own night on, Tony and I were on the our first, Tony's second season,

Andrew Zimmern (33:41):

my first season, we were both on Mondays. Then he put me on Tuesdays and that was it. I mean, the, the luck had the Leno bookers not seen the show. I don't think we'd be sitting here talking to each other. Mm. You, you have to have a lot of luck. You do. To expose the audience to a show fast enough. In other words, the, the audience has to find a program, right. And so that's why most programmers are interested in episodes 3, 4, 5. They wanna see the number once it it, and see how is an audience finding it and how are they responding? Right. Episode one could be the benefit of a lot of on air programming, just on the network. That's gonna air it. Right. Mm-hmm so again, just seconds and inches. I was, I was very, very lucky. And then when the audience found it and, and you know this as well as anyone, an audience, there are people who are, you know, smarter, better looking, funnier, you know, all the rest of that stuff than, than me. I'm a, I'm a pretty average guy, but the audience wants to tune in each week to see me do whatever. Yeah. And that is, I mean, if, if programmers could figure that out, there'd be a lot more, well, there'd be a lot less failures in terms of programming investment. Yeah. But they still can't. So there's, there's an indescribable, certain thing that people will tune into someone week after week and not someone else. And it's indefinable.

Jaymee Sire (35:16):

Coming up next. Andrew tells us about family dinner on Magnolia networks. So stick around.

Jaymee Sire (35:27):

The connection that you do form with that audience is, is so invaluable. But as you mentioned, you know, they, the audience has to find it first in order to feel that connection. But I think that that's why your new show on Magnolia network is, is so interesting because you're continuing, you know, to tell these stories and to make these connections with people that you're featuring. It's, you're basically visiting families across the country. You're exploring how the cultural, regional historical facets of, of who we are inform what and how we eat. And you're, you're literally sitting down at these dinner tables with these, with these families and, and breaking bread with them and hearing their stories. And I saw an interview that you said, it, it, you think it's the best show you've ever made. So I'm curious what, what makes this show so special?

Andrew Zimmern (36:13):

I think what comes from the heart reaches the heart. I don't make it special. The, the, the people we visit make it special. I wrote that line about that one sentence description of the show. Mm-Hmm and that's the 25% of intelligence that I wanna put into anything I'm making. I, I, I'm making the show as an entertainment. Yeah. Some people saw bizarre foods as a fat white guy who ran around the world and ate bugs. They have a tough, they have a tough life. They come home at the end of the day, they pop a beer, they want to put their feet up on the couch and they wanna laugh and they want to watch something with their kids. And they, they want something that, that gives them pleasure. And as the intellectual with a, I mean, I do everything with a hidden agenda. My hidden agenda with bizarre foods was to teach people about patience, tolerance and understanding in a world that wasn't having any that was increasingly becoming more and more divided about our differences than our commonalities. And it was very intentional. And I was told, don't say that

Jaymee Sire (37:20):

Just work it in subtly.

Andrew Zimmern (37:22):

Work it in, and you'll be more effective to more people. And Pat was right. With Family Dinner I never, my big family was taken away from me. I lost a big family with divorces and deaths and people moving away and addiction and alcoholism and just life. And I have been in, I have been seeking out a, another family to take me in for a meal forever. I mean, that's why I've, I, I try to explain to people, everything that I've done in television for 20 years is about going to someone's house for dinner . So when Magnolia came to me and said, we want to do, they, they actually came to me. They said, we want an intuitive content show. We want your production company to do a show. We love you the look and feel of what you do. And we pitched them immediately on Family Dinner, because we had done, I mean, literally first words out of my mouth, where it's called Family Dinner, the host goes around and visits with real families talking about their traditions, their lives, because that is something everyone on the couch can relate to.

Andrew Zimmern (38:31):

And they were like, fantastic. And we put some we hadn't even put casting people in front of, we hadn't even given them an alternate, but we got a call from the network about 10 days after they had come here to our office to meet about this project. And they said, would you do it? And I said, well, sure. But I didn't know we were talking about a show for me. And they said, well, we weren't, but you were talking about it. So you know, passionately and with, you know, we started to think like, we, we, we need someone like you to do it. And then we realized there's not a lot of people like you mm-hmm who can just go into someone's home and, and let us experience them. And I, I, it's the, I mean, I'm almost embarrassed to say, you know, how pleasurable and simple my role is.

Andrew Zimmern (39:28):

I mean, I, I walk in and let the families tell their stories and everyone can relate to it. And the timing with COVID and with the cultural upheavals of our day, I think people really like seeing another family talk about how valuable it is to spend time with each other. That that's the, that's the only way that we can solve our relationship issues, brother to sister, sister to sister, mother to child, grandmother to grandchild, whatever the combination is, aunt or uncle to niece or nephew, vice versa. Everyone can relate to that. So it's a very simple, simple idea, but it works pretty well.

Jaymee Sire (40:12):

Yeah. I mean, and it seems like these people also just feel comfortable and, and, and ready to open up and share some, you know, emotional stories. I think back at some of my other conversations on this podcast, and we've talked about how, you know, food has this magical power almost of, you know, bringing people together. Why do you think that is?

Andrew Zimmern (40:31):

We swim in it. We, we have emerged and, and I'll take you back 35,000 years when we stopped hunting and gathering and started living in collections of humanity. We told stories over campfires and we decorated cave walls with those stories, you know, 10,000 years later, we started recording them on Papyrus. 10,000 years after that, we invented the printing press, you know, 400, 500 years after that we invented radio. And you know, 80 years after that, you know, television, now look where we are. We carry around devices in our pockets that we can take pictures and transmit them to the other side of the world. We can look at live video. I mean it's amazing the power of that device that's in our pockets. Mm-Hmm, All we choose to do with those devices, that's all about telling our story. It's all about telling our story. So where do we gather and where do we tell our story the most?

Andrew Zimmern (41:37):

I'm a strong believer that I challenge anyone in the 80% of Americans that have a regular food life. Cause we have to remember who we're talking about here. 20% to 24% of Americans, 800 billion people globally do not have a food life, but for the rest that do, life happens in the kitchen. Mm-Hmm everything happens in the kitchen. No one says let's go down to the, to the wreck room and have a heart to heart it just happens that people collect in kitchens. They share things over food and it, it, it is embedded in our DNA. But historically going back to all six of those cultural eras that I describe going back 35,000 years, when everybody is out doing the jobs that are necessary to keep the family groups moving and surviving millennia ago, 10, thousands of years ago, thousands and thousands of years ago, the only time that we shared was when we broke bread, that's when we were together and we still do that today. It's a very simple thing. There's three big cultural totems, right? Math, music, and food. If I take away your, your mix tape that your boyfriend made for you in college, you're gonna be pretty pissed off at me. you love that mixtape, right? But it's not the end of the world. If you take away your, if I take your quadratic equation away from you, I, I honestly don't even think you care about your quadratic equation. you would let me have that freely.

Jaymee Sire (43:16):

You, you can have that

Andrew Zimmern (43:19):

But it, when you take away rice, when you take away bread, that is the stuff that revolutions are made of. That is the stuff that blood runs in the streets we live and swim in food. People joke. I mean, it's been popular to say, oh, food is my love language. Like everyone has that as their little sign off on their email and stuff, at least in, in our business Uhhuh. Right? It, it, I'm sure you hear it a hundred times a day. It's almost a cliche. Mm-Hmm except it's cliches are true sometimes for a reason. Food is the love language of humanity. Food is one of the major league antidepressants that we use. Food is how many people show each other that we love each other, that we respect each other. It, it requires no conversation. You, you've seen the end of big night, probably a hundred times.

Andrew Zimmern (44:10):

And anyone listening to this podcast has probably seen the movie at least once, but Stanley Tuchi and Tony Shalu are two brothers. And the, the previous 24 hours does not go well for them. And Stanley Tuchi gets up at the end of the movie and makes eggs and toast in silence for his brother. And they eat it at the movie ends and not a word is spoken. And yet it's the most arguably Moore's communicated in that simple act about, about love, about conquering, our fears about survival, about our humanity in the last 90 seconds of that movie than in the previous two hours filled with brilliant script writing. But you can't write anything that meets up with what happens when someone makes somebody else some scrambled eggs.

Jaymee Sire (45:01):

Hmm. Oh, wow. I, I feel like I could, I could sit here for hours and, and listen to you, you know, tell stories and

Andrew Zimmern (45:10):

You never ask me over. You never invite me. Yeah,

Jaymee Sire (45:14):

Listen, I have, there's a standing, standing invitation. Next time you're in New York, you are welcome to come to my apartment and I will, I will cook you some food and we will, we will share a meal together because I, yeah, I have, I have so many questions that we did not get to. So we're gonna have to do a part two at some point.

Andrew Zimmern (45:30):

Sorry. I talked too much.

Jaymee Sire (45:32):

No, no, please.

Andrew Zimmern (45:33):

Everyone. I talked too much. I apologize.

Jaymee Sire (45:35):

Do not apologize. Do not apologize. I, I enjoyed it so immensely and I, and I know that our listeners did as well. So we are gonna finish things off with a little rapid fire round. And then we have one final question for you here on Food Network Obsessed. All right. Rapid fire questions. Favorite food movie.

Andrew Zimmern (45:52):

Eat Drink Man Woman.

Jaymee Sire (45:55):

Oh, Favorite Minnesota dinner spot.

Andrew Zimmern (45:59):

My house.

Jaymee Sire (46:00):

I love it. Rank your, your top three fast food burgers

Andrew Zimmern (46:05):

Culvers. Oh my God. fa-, and I'm going literally with fast food. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Culvers, Culvers and Culvers.

Jaymee Sire (46:16):

okay.

Andrew Zimmern (46:18):

I, I, I think all the others I'm talking about strictly fast fooders do not work. And the most overrated hamburger in the world is at In-N-Out.

Jaymee Sire (46:28):

okay. You're gonna, those are some fighting words for, for some of our, our west coast people.

Andrew Zimmern (46:33):

Oh, I talk about it all the time. I love it's my favorite conversation to have. I don't get it. I don’t get it.

Jaymee Sire (46:38):

Do you, do you like that conversation better or it, if a hot dog is a sandwich?

Andrew Zimmern (46:44):

The former because it's already settled jurisprudence. I settled it a long time ago. Bread plus meat equals sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich and you're allowed to have ketchup on it as long as you're under 12

Andrew Zimmern (46:59):

That's settled law.

Jaymee Sire (47:00):

That's settled law. Okay. a Midwest food tradition. One might find bizarre

Andrew Zimmern (47:08):

Lutefisk, although it's dying but we have so many Scandinavians in the upper Midwest. They brought with them a method of taking salt Cod. And instead of just rehydrating it and cooking it like the rest of the world does, they were gonna soak it and lie until it turns to inedible poisonous fish jelly then rehydrated for two days in changes of water to get the lie out, leaving the fish jelly behind, then you steam it and drizzle it with melted butter. And there's not enough melted butter in the world to make that stuff taste good.

Jaymee Sire (47:41):

Andrew Zimmern (47:45):

It, it boggles it boggle, especially being a globalist, because I've been in so many cultures where salt Cod simply rehydrated in France it makes brandade. In Italy it's, it's a baccala that's fried in fingers at Filettaro, at you know, in the, in the, in the Latino world, in, in 26 countries it's turned into a baccala that's just incredible, you know, fried broiled, baked steamed. I mean, it's just salt cod is fantastic. And then the Scandinavians had to like, do this weird thing to it. And then when I went to Scandinavia, I found out it's more of a tradition in Minnesota than it is in all the Scandinavian countries combined. So yikes.

Jaymee Sire (48:29):

Who knew? Yeah. All right. Favorite bite and least favorite bite on Bizarre foods?

Andrew Zimmern (48:35):

Wow. I mean, 900 shows later. Woo

Andrew Zimmern (48:40):

Least favorite bite that just comes to mind right away was a pizza in Isan Province at a night market. My producer was trying to find a little button for our segment there. And he saw that someone was making pizza. It was like a frozen cracker bread that they put some of the worst Americanized style emulsified sausages on the, the, the horrors of that one dish. I mean, it's so funny cause it closed the show out, our Isan Province show and Northern Thailand is a place that you could shoot 10 bizarre food shows there mm-hmm , it's really, there's a lot of nutsy food by Western standards. And when I took a bite of this thing, it's just visible on my face. I'm not I'm chewing and not gonna swallow. And I actually talked about, it was far enough in the show. It was midway like six year, six or seven out of 12. So that was horrible and, and best. There were so many, so many incredible foods that no human being will ever, I I'm convinced no human being will ever eat a giant scallop again,

Andrew Zimmern (49:51):

They, you know, they're the size, they're bigger than basketballs. Wow. I’m talking about the meat inside the shells or twice the three, four times the size of basketballs, but in Samoa where they were protected that the tsunami has wiped out. A lot of them and the tribal people that had the right to fish them, they were allowed to take like two a year for special meals. We were there when they were harvesting one. So stuff like that where I know I'm the only, I'm, I'm one of the only people in the world to, to ever eat 3000 year old butter. I'm one of the only people who has eaten you know, honey truffles taken from the desert where they believe lightning strikes grow them in the Souk in Aleppo, it's destroyed now. So, you know, it's those kinds of things.

Andrew Zimmern (50:40):

But when it comes down to saying that everyone can go get in rural Cambodia, Vietnam, and Thailand, they will deep fry, baby ducklings and chicks and pour nước mắm, or a seasoned fish sauce, condiment outside of Vietnam, where it would be called something else, onto something. Mm. And onto those little fried birds. And I, I just, it it's as close to Orlon, which I ate in France once very illegally, but it's, they are unbelievable. You take the beak and you eat them with this sauce. And I just talking about them makes my toes curl.

Jaymee Sire (51:20):

all right. Well, on that note our final question is, is something that we ask everybody here on Food Network Obsessed. And as you can imagine, everybody's answer is completely different. So what would be on the menu for your perfect food day? We're talking breakfast, lunch, dinner, dessert, if you want dessert. And there's basically no rules. You can travel time, travel, you know, spend as much money as you want. There, there are no rules. It's just your day. We wanna hear what, what, what you're eating throughout the day.

Andrew Zimmern (51:50):

Sure. It's very easy. Okay. breakfast four guaranteed, but we think perhaps we think five generations of Zimmern’s have eaten at the, at the Russ Federman families Russ & Daughters in New York. Okay. And I'm very good friends with the current generation of owners, but we have pictures of my grandmother there with, with Nikki's grandfather.

Jaymee Sire (52:19):

Love that. Oh my gosh.

Andrew Zimmern (52:20):

And we, we believe that my great grandfather, while very poor, would've stopped by there in the more saved up to have something there. We knew he lived two blocks away and worked in the neighborhood. So he had to walk by there all the time. He was poor than poor could be, but I have to assume one day he would save up and buy a bagel there. Right. So that's five generations of our family. So my, my and I'm lucky that I, I get a chance sometimes to eat behind the counter, so to speak. So I, I would start my day there at, at Russ & Daughters because I feel like a raindrop entering the river when I'm sitting there. For lunch,

Jaymee Sire (53:01):

But what are you getting there? What are you getting at Russ & Daughters for breakfast?

Andrew Zimmern (53:03):

Oh, I'm, I'm getting everything bagel, lightly toasted, gas based salmon, double red onion, and yeah that's my, and, and some white fish salad. A little bit of chopped liver on the side. I mean, I like a little smorgasboard there I'll I'll overeat. Yep. I believe in eating till you're tired, not till you're full . So I would do that. Lunch would definitely I, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna say, take me to take me to Chengdu and Yu Bo's restaurant, instead of dinner only serves lunch and I would eat my favorite food in one of my favorite food cities on planet earth and eat the, the best, you know, 28 course tasting menu of Chean food available on the planet. And then for dinner I would wanna be, I would want it to be 1966. Okay. My grandmother is in her sixties and except I'm my age now. And I make her the recipes that that she taught me how to make when I was a little kid. Mm.

Andrew Zimmern (54:25):

And I never got to cook for her. And she taught me, I mean, the stuff that I make at all of the I'm Jewish, all of our holidays, some of the most popular ones on our website. I mean, there must be 40, 50,000 people that make her brisket now for, for Jewish holidays. I would love to make it for her. Mm. And show her that. I hate you. You're making me cry. I swore I wouldn't cry. But I would want to make her like all the classic foods that her roast chicken, her brisket, her matzo ball soup, all the, her chopped liver, all the stuff that she taught me that I've, chefied up just enough. So that I think it's maybe a little better than what she was making.

Jaymee Sire (55:10):

Andrew Zimmern (55:12):

In that tiny apartment where she would cook for 19 people in, in a space that might, my couch I'm sitting on in my office is bigger than that kitchen. I don't know how she did it. But I would want her to taste that, that food and share it with her now that I appreciate what it meant to me.

Jaymee Sire (55:32):

Yeah. No, I mean, that's really beautiful. And I think we, we all, you know, long for those opportunities to, to go back and, and, and share a meal with loved ones that we can't do that with anymore. So yeah. I think that's really beautiful. And now you're making me cry. you're welcome. Yeah. Andrew, thank you so much. This has been such a lovely conversation and I, I, I so appreciate you taking the time.

Andrew Zimmern (56:02):

Thank you. I, I, a pleasure to be invited and thank you for telling the stories that you do and allowing for so many voices to be heard. I, I enjoy your work immensely and getting to meet you a couple months ago in New York was a, a highlight of this year for me. And I will take you up. We will, we will go break bread together at some point.

Jaymee Sire (56:20):

Yes, we will. Thank you.

Jaymee Sire (56:27):

Wow. That was an incredible conversation. I could hear him talk about food and travel and, and life really for hours on end. We're definitely gonna have to do a part two at some point. And it's so great to hear that he's not slowing down anytime soon either. You can watch Family Dinner on Magnolia Network Sundays at eight, seven central, and you can stream the first two seasons now on Discovery Plus. hanks so much for listening and make sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. So you don't miss a thing. And if you enjoy today's episode, please rate and review. We love it. When you do that, that's all for now. We'll catch you foodies next Friday.