Chef JJ Johnson shares how his family nurtured his passion for food and why he decided to pursue culinary school. JJ talks about his time studying in Ghana and falling in love with West African cuisine.
Chef JJ Johnson shares how his family nurtured his passion for food and why he decided to pursue culinary school. JJ talks about his time studying in Ghana and falling in love with West African cuisine. He shares his affection for rice and why you can explore most every culture through their rice dishes. JJ explains why he wants to become the Michael Jordan of the culinary world and what it means to have tenacity and dedication to a craft. JJ talks about hosting The Cookout at the South Beach Food and Wine Festival and why it’s important to hold space for black culture and cuisine at these events. He discusses his James Beard nominated Food Network video explaining the versatility of collard greens and why they don’t get the hype they deserve before revealing his favorite food spot in Harlem.
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Find episode transcripts here: https://food-network-obsessed.simplecast.com/episodes/jj-johnson-on-rice-as-the-throughline-of-our-lives
Jaymee Sire:
Hello, hello and welcome to Food Network Obsessed. This is a podcast where we dish on all things food with your favorite chefs, food influencers, and food network stars. I'm your host Jamie Sawyer, and today we have a James Beard Award-winning chef with us to share his take on Afro-Asian cuisine and why he wants to become the food world's Michael Jordan. He is a chef, cookbook author, restaurateur, and entrepreneur. It's JJ Johnson. JJ, welcome to the podcast. You probably don't remember this, but we actually met in 2019 when I was hosting a show at the US Open, and the main thing I remember is you bringing some delicious rice bowls to our set. So it is so great to reconnect here. How are you?
JJ Johnson:
I’m great. I saw your name when I got the email and I was like, yeah, I know. Are from somewhere.
Jaymee Sire:
From Somewhere. Sounds familiar. Well, speaking of sports, I kind of wanna kick off this convo with something you said in an interview a few years ago. Tell me why you aspire to become the Food World's Michael Jordan.
JJ Johnson:
Oh, wow. So crazy. I brought my kids to the, their first basketball game last night, which was a Nick game, and it was just a impeccable to see like my son, like show into the game. My and my daughter like chanting defense the whole time
Jaymee Sire:
Yeah. No, I think that's really well said. So it's not just about being like, you know, goat status, greatest of all time. It's more about, you know, kind of helping others, you know, realize their their dreams as well.
JJ Johnson:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I think that, I mean, every young, every kick Kobe, LeBron, I mean Tiger, right? These guys expire inspired to be Jordan, even what's her name in the W N B A? I came, um, TESI like, yeah,
Jaymee Sire:
Dyna
JJ Johnson:
Tasi inspired to be Jordan and it was a, and and I I think yes, he, he was a goat on the floor, but the direct impact he had or has allowed to do that. And when I look at myself in the culinary world, I have this direct impact, uh, on the food scene of the past and the present. I have this like direct impact on communities. And now if I was to say, if you look like a just direct correlation of athlete, like me and LeBron are the same age, he makes more way more money than I do
Jaymee Sire:
But than most people, I would say
JJ Johsnon:
Yeah. But the way he thinks, right? He's like, he's a community guy. He's thinking about impacting the youth. I'm a community guy. I'm thinking about impacting the youth. He's bringing it every day, even if he's been in the game for 20 years, right? I'm bringing it every day regardless of where I go, who I'm playing against, who I'm cooking against
Jaymee Sire:
JJ Johnson:
Before kindergarten, I stepped on a milk crate in my grandmother's kitchen,
Jaymee Sire:
Yeah. You said it was fun. What, what was so fun about those days being in the kitchen with your grandma?
JJ Johnson:
What was really fun was like the, the vessel, the food was a vessel to bring people together. And that it would make, they would bring smiles on people's faces. My grandfather's from Barbado, so like, he would play Calypso music, they would dance if she played Latino music, she would, he would dance south. So it was like always this very fun or like energetic moment in the house. And I think a lot of immigrant families have those moments, right, of like, food is the moment of truth. It's the one thing that we all can hold onto. Nobody can take away. You could really, you could really see that in, in my grandparents' household. And, and, and when the table would be set, there'd be a lot of laughter. There would be a lot of arguing, there would be some tears, you know, that's just what happens, just happens around the table. But then you would do it all over again the next day. And yeah, I watched cartoons, but I felt like the kitchen was just a better place. Like, it, it just felt right. I don't know why. It's, it's one of the young vivid memories I still have. There's not many other me, you know, most of your memories as a kid is cuz your parents show you pictures mm-hmm.
Jaymee Sire:
And, and those Sunday dinners, those vivid memories that you speak about, how do you bring that into what your culinary point of view is today?
JJ Johnson:
I think my point of view today is like a gathering space. Mm-hmm. Every restaurant I've cooked in has always been a sense of gather, has always been a sense of expression, has always been a safe space for folks that might not be able to dine very freely without judgment. And that's how it was. That's how, that's how it's always been in my family's house for golf, if it was around the food table or playing basketball outside or friends coming over, it didn't matter what you looked like or who you were. It was, it was a safe space for all. And, and then I bring the music, the music energy, like I'm always making sure the music is right, that people are can sing along. That you can have this really memorable moment. And that's just important to me.
Jaymee Sire:
So at what point did you decide, you know, you wanted to take this, this thing that you enjoyed so much, these gatherings, the, the cooking with your grandmother and actually turn that into something you wanted to pursue as a career?
JJ Johnson:
I wanted to pursue cooking at a career at eight. Seven. At eight.
Jaymee Sire:
At eight. So you knew at eight that this is what you wanted to do?
JJ Johnson:
Yeah, I saw, I saw a commercial for culinary Suit of America at eight years old. I told my parents I was gonna be a chef. Mm. They, my mom, my mom chuckled
Jaymee Sire:
So you did get your bachelor's cuz I, I, I read something that you, that you went like one
semester and you're like, nah, I can't do this.
JJ Johnson:
Oh yeah. So I graduated culinary school, my associates, I get accepted to go to Sea Hall, something I don't talk about a lot, talk about here and there. And I was in Scene Hall University for one semester and I literally talked about food so much that people were like, yo bro, you're talking about food way too much. And, and, and some of the people from senior Hall are some of my closest friends today. Like I would say that I paid the semester, I paid for, I have some of the closest friends I remember, uh, should I get a chuckle on this? I remember being at the, in the lunch table, like in a calf in college, Uhhuh
And actually that year off probably defined a lot who I was, because I really got to cook food, really understood what hustling was about. I used to work in the main kitchen, in the lodge kitchen. I used to run across the, the golf course to get to the other restaurant to cook in the nighttime. The chefs there really took me under their wing. Chef Steven taught me how to do inventory. I nearly almost cut my finger off
Jaymee Sire:
Another, I guess defining moment probably for you was when you went to Ghana and you spent a month cooking there, studying West African cuisine and, and really exploring the country, it's markets, it's culture. What were you hoping to discover during that time and what did you actually discover during that time?
JJ Johnson:
I'm a, I'm a big risk guy. If you know me, like I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll put it all on black. And Alexander Smalls reached out to me after being on Rockwell dinner party. Really didn't know who he was, didn't, didn't know his impact on the industry. And he said, Hey, do you wanna go to Ghana? And I had a job offered from the Tao Group to be a sous chef. Wow. Aron Aron Steakhouse at that time. And I literally said, Ellie, I literally said to my parent, my parents like, yo, I'm gonna go to Ghana. And my mom's like, you're going where
I learned that this food was a lot of me. I, there was so much remembrance of flavor and you know, there was a couple of friends, my wife now, I was just dating her at the time. She used to go to Ghana a lot to do missionary work. She's a nurse. So she would go there and she was like, yo, you're gonna find yourself like, you gotta go to the slave castles. You gotta do this. And I never got a chance to go to slave castles because of traffic. But I found myself through food. And every moment I touched food there, from the first time I had Perry Perry prs. And when I had suya after the nightclub to getting pulled over by the cops and them giving me a snack. Like there was all these moments. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was like all these moments of, of around food that I felt were like very planned. First time I had Japanese whiskey was in, was in Ghana at a sushi restaurant. Um, so there was all these moments that I felt like God had a plan for me and it was exposing me to something that nobody else in the culinary world was exposed to. Mm-hmm.
Jaymee Sire:
Yep.
JJ Johnson:
My, my dad was very big on you. You're a black boy. Like yes, you're Caribbean, you're Puerto, you have all but you're a black boy. When you step out the house, that's who you are. It wasn't like, hey, let's just, you know, let's do this DNA test and let's see where we, who you are and where you come from and what percentage you have. But food taught me that cuz food doesn't, food doesn't have a bias, right? Mm-hmm.
Jaymee Sire:
I, I wanna keep talking about that, but I do wanna back up for a second because I need to know more about the story of you getting pulled over and the, the police giving you a snack.
JJ Johnson:
Oh, yeah. So we're like going, I'm going with the concierge to the nightclub and we, he gets pulled over by the cops and I'm like, yo, what are we, what is going on right now? And he's like, don't say anything. Don't take out passport, don't do this. And like, he's like freaking out. I'm thinking in my mind like, are, he's like, he's gonna get pulled up for like a dui, like, in my mind, thinking like all the American things. And it was just a checkpoint. It was like, Hey, what's up guys? What's going on
Jaymee Sire:
No, it seems like, like, you know, stories like that and, and some of the other things you mentioned it, it was obviously a very impactful time in your life. How, how much has that shaped just like your, your culinary voice in terms of, you mentioned the African and Asian cuisine kind of fusing together with your, you know, your style of cooking. How much do you attribute it to that time you spent there?
JJ Johnson:
I attribute it all to that time. And then the, and then, and then after that I started traveling the world a lot more. But yeah, that, that was like the door opening that was like the, an ancestors calling me, giving me my marching orders. And then the rest I was able to connect the dots. I started looking at food through the West African lens when I traveled to Singapore next. And I would eat like chili crab. And I was like, oh, this is Perry, Perry sauce.
Jaymee Sire:
JJ Johnson:
These are the same ingredients. Oh, I, I see the impact. Right? And then when you see the makeup of the people of Singapore, it's Malay, it's Chinese, it's Indian. Mm-hmm. And then you're like, oh, it's similar. Okay, who traveled this way? Oh, west Africans were came this way. Right. So you can start to see the direct correlation or, or when I was in Israel and I was on the four quarters and go through the Muslim side and you start eating the food and you're like, oh my goodness, this is West Africa. Mm-hmm. Or even a lot of Israel, you can see that west, you can see the lens of West Africa through the food. So I started to look at stuff a lot different. And when I went to India, that's when I had a lot of more respectful food from Barbados because as a kid I used to hate food from Barbados when we would go there in the summertimes. Why? But then, well it, it wasn't like the curries uhhuh, the flying fish, the coco, you know, the yellow, I mean, only thing I used to like was like yellow pepper, hot sauce. But I started to understand it and then I was like, oh, this is this roti with the chick with the chickpea curry and rice is legit
Jaymee Sire:
And, and all of these influences that you're talking about are really the foundation for field trip, which is your fast casual restaurant after working in the more upscale restaurants. What about a, a casual establishment really excited you?
JJ Johnson:
Originally field trip, the model is try to be like a mama fuku, like noodle bars instead of noodle bars should be rice. My partner at the time who, you know, was, was helping on the operation side was like, yo, I don't, I don't think anybody's gonna spend $25 for a rice bowl.
Jaymee Sire:
JJ Johnson:
And I, you gonna have to rethink this. And I didn't know about fast casual. Right. Fast casual was, you know, when I started working on this was like 2015, you know, sweet green, chopped, those guys were like making this new, well Chipotle was kind of like really coming into like this big play on the east coast. You started seeing these high, these new spinoffs from it Sweet green and chopped. And I was like, all right, let me see, let me try to, let me try to build this out. And I, I kind of figured it out. But also what stopped me from doing like a full service spot at that time was I couldn't raise enough money. Hmm. So I only, I only was able to raise a certain amount of cash from friends and family and whatever I had. And the rest was like, okay, that's how I could build. So let's figure this out is work so far. Knock on wood. But yeah, that was, that that's how, that's how it really got started. I, I I I opened it in a community that believed in me and a place where I feel like people appreciated rice. Cause I feel like a lot of people don't appreciate rice. And that's that,
Jaymee Sire:
And you've said before, you know, that rice connects us all and that was kind of a, a driving force behind this concept. Why, why does Rice connect us all?
JJ Johnson:
Well, we all grew up on it. Where are you from?
Jaymee Sire:
I'm from Montana.
JJ Johnson:
Okay. Did you eat rice as a kid?
Jaymee Sire:
Well, I mean we were, this is like the eighties when a lot, you know, a lot of, a lot of boxed and canned things. So I I feel like it was a lot of like boxed rice mixes but energetic.
JJ Johnson:
That means you had a mom that worked really hard. Yep. Single mom and dad was like, I got no time to cook.
Jaymee Sire:
Exactly.
JJ Johnson:
And the commercials telling me this rice could be made in 15 minutes. Yep.
Jaymee Sire:
Exactly.
JJ Johnson:
No, I mean that's what happened with my mom. My mom started making box rice. I hate box rice. If I could crack the code on like really good box rice. Ooh,
Jaymee Sire:
I think you should work on that.
JJ Johnson
If I can crack the code on like beautiful box rice comes out perfectly for all the working class folks out there. Mm-hmm.
Jaymee Sire:
I love that. I mean now I love rice now I eat it like a few times a a week and, and I have the rice cooker and it's, it's the best, the smell of it, you know, cooking and almost being done is like the best smell in the, in the world.
JJ Johnson:
You know, I haven't talked about simple auditor write rice yet cuz it comes out in September.
Jaymee Sire:
Oh, okay.
JJ Johnson:
So, you know that, that, that's been a process that we've been working on for three years. Uh, and I think it have an amazing impact on society to get people the tools to be able to cook rice. And the best ways you take time and effort. You wanna make sure you have the right team around you. You wanna recipe test, you want to get the, the proper photographer and then you get to work. And the key is just finding people that believe in you a little bit more than you believe in yourself between the Harlem and Heaven was an amazing team. Veronica Chambers, you know, e epic writer has won so many different awards and for written some great memoir Marks for Chef Eric Repair. Marcus Samuelson. Right. All those books she wrote were New York Times bestsellers. I was the only one to bring her James Beard Award. We, we all won James Beard Award together, which was great. And even the photographer, right? The the person who shot between Harlem and Heaven was Beatrice Scotta. And you know, a person who is a Brazilian, are you talking about the diaspora? And the dishes really spoke to her and she was able to work with the right prop stylists, make sure it looked authentic, shoot it beautifully, and those things really matter. And then, you know, will Squabble is my editor for, was the editor before between the Harlem and Heaven and is the editor of Simpler of Rice. And you know, you, you couldn't ask for a better book editor than than Will, uh, he really understands food. He's been in the game. He keeps you honest. And those things all matter when you're, when you're building around it. And I think a lot of us when we're young, we're just so hyped to get to get something like, oh my gosh, my first restaurant, let's build it. Or this is my first book. And you never think about all the other things that might hurt you along the way. So building a really good team around yourself is really ideal. But yeah, we could jump back on and talk about the Simple Art of Rice soon, because I think that book might define me who I am in my career and really, and really put the Rice game back on a map.
Jaymee Sire:
Well we are certainly looking forward to that and also looking forward to, uh, south Beach Wine and Food Festival, which is coming up. And as you are no stranger to cooking on TV or in front of large crowds, you have a pretty, uh, exciting event coming up called the Cookout, which is already sold out by the way. Sounds like a blast. What can the people who were lucky enough to snag tickets expect in this one?
JJ Johnson:
So what you bring into the cookout?
Jaymee Sire:
JJ Johnson:
So I love that. Yeah. So you're, you're invited to the cookout. Okay. Yeah. Young, you get it, you get it
Jaymee Sire:
That's amazing.
JJ Johnson:
You can't like America's favorite dj. Right. So, and you'll, you'll get everything from like, what I bring to the cookout is potato salad. No, raisin.
Jaymee Sire:
Okay. That was gonna be my next question. What are you bringing to the cookout?
JJ Johnson:
Yeah, but no raisins in the potato salad.
Jaymee Sire:
No, I never understood that
JJ Johnson:
That's why you're invited to the cookout.
Jaymee Sire:
Okay. Okay. Okay, cool.
JJ Johnson:
Jaymee Sire:
JJ Johnson:
I had to release more tickets and I think it could, I I would love to see it become an event at New York City Food and Wine. Oh yeah. And see it become an event. Maybe a bigger event on the beach. Even like Warren G has called to potentially perform like, yo man, I love that. It's crazy.
Jaymee Sire:
You had to turn Warren down.
JJ Johnson:
That’s crazy. Like Warren, like, you gonna come. He was like, he like, he's friends of, he's a, he's one of my friend's dad's friend
Jaymee Sire:
Okay. I definitely am coming to that cookout for sure.
JJ Johnson:
I gotta check, I gotta check who's bringing the greens to the cookout? I'm sure they'll be there. Yeah. In some type of form. I'm not bringing 'em this time, but I will bring 'em next time. And that video is epic. Like many people don't know. We shot that video in the pandemic. Mm-hmm. It was a big shout out to the Food Network team on that. We went at my restaurant, everybody was like masked up one camera person, everybody on Zoom. And we shot this phenomenal everything you need to know about Collard Greens. I got nominated for a James Beard award, which, you know, I was hoping to win because the story behind it and the team just worked really hard on it was, it was, it wasn't just about me. And another, I think the, I think the Collard Green has worked harder than kale, which it needed to get some respect. Yeah.
Jaymee Sire:
Um, why doesn't it get more respect?
JJ Johnson:
I’m not, you know, the collard green is the true American green. Mm-hmm.
Jaymee Sire:
JJ Johnson:
Yeah, it's very popular.
Jaymee Sire:
All right, well if you have not seen it, check it out on food network.com. It's, you know, like you said, everything from choosing the Greens to cleaning them, storing them, pickling the stems. A lot of good stuff in there. We are running a bit little bit short on time. I would love to keep talking to you. Uh, this has been fantastic, but we are going to finish things off with a little rapid fire round and then we have one final question for you that we ask everybody here on Food Network Obsessed. So, rapid fire round, favorite food spot in Harlem, aside from your own
JJ Johnson:
Favorite food spot in Harlem? Ooh, so hard.
Jaymee Sire:
Melva Melva is great. Your life mantra.
JJ Johnson:
It's on my, it's on my arm. It's passion plus drive Equal success.
Jaymee Sire:
Uh, do you believe in luck?
JJ Johnson:
Yeah. If you hit the lotto
Jaymee Sire:
JJ Johnson:
Oh wow. Is Ina is ina original food Network choice.
Jaymee Sire:
Yeah. You could say Ina for sure. Ia Queen. Queen Ina ia.
JJ Johnson:
My kids
Jaymee Sire:
Pets. Pets. Get you outta bed first. How do you take your coffee?
JJ Johnson:
I don't drink it. Okay.
Jaymee Sire:
Tea or nothing?
JJ Johnson:
Nope. Just a glass of water.
Jaymee Sire:
All right. Dream travel. Destination?
JJ Johnson:
Wow. I'm gonna say dream travel destination's gonna probably be for my 40th. We're probably gonna do Greece or Italy. Okay. So, but dream travel, that's so hard for me. I wanna go to so many places in the world.
Jaymee Sire:
JJ Johnson:
They're all on it.
Jaymee Sire:
All right. So final question is not rapid fire. You can take as long as you want. On this one, we are wondering what would be on the menu for your perfect food day. So, breakfast, lunch, dinner, dessert. There are no rules. You can time travel, spend as much money as you want, you know, regular travel around the world in one day. Whatever you wanna do to, to kind of fill out that perfect food day.
JJ Johnson:
All right. Perfect. Food day is breakfast with my kids in the morning. It's oatmeal and cereal and some bagels with peanut butter on it. Perfect. Lunch would be field trip anywhere in the world. You said I can, you said I can think in the future. So field trip. Field trip. Anywhere in the world.
Jaymee Sire:
Okay. And what are you, what are you eating at your field?
JJ Johnson:
Trip? What am I eating at Field trip? I'm probably eating the shrimp bowl, which is coconut sticky rice, shrimp, uptown curry with the wag vegetables side of plantains and a dragonfruit lemonade. Yum. And I'm sure my team is there with me. O' dolly, Kara, Lisa. We're all, we're all eating together. And then dinner. Oh shit. Dinner's hard.
Jaymee Sire:
JJ Johnson:
There's definitely a snack in there.
Jaymee Sire:
Definit. Yeah, you can throw, oh yeah, I'm sorry. You can throw snacks in too.
JJ Johnson:
Definitely. There's definitely a snack in there after lunch because I, I, I don't stop eating.
Jaymee Sire:
JJ Johnson:
For snacks? There's definitely a snack in there.
Jaymee Sire:
What's the, what's the go-to snack?
JJ Johnson:
Go-to snack. It really depends on where I am, but we'll just say there's a snack. I don't know what it is.
Jaymee Sire:
Okay. There is a snack.
JJ Johnson:
There's a snack and then dinner would be with my wife. It would definitely be Italian food cuz she loves Italian food. And we would definitely be eating pasta. We'd probably be in like a, a dope spot in a cor in, in a corner restaurant in Florence. Drinking table wine, laughing and just enjoying life.
Jaymee Sire:
Ah, well that sounds like a perfect day and a perfect dinner and, and end to that perfect food day. Thank you so much for taking the time. Loved getting to chat with you and look forward to much more from you coming in the near future.
JJ Johnson:
No, I appreciate it. It was a blast. I'll see you at the cookout. Yes.
Jaymee Sire:
I will
JJ Johnson:
When No end the beans. And I'll let you know who makes the collard greens at this year's cookout. Perfect. Thanks a lot for having me.
Jaymee Sire:
Such a pleasure chatting with JJ. And I need to make my way to field trip for one of those rice bowls, A S A P. Make sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss a thing. And if you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review. We love it when you do that. That's all for now. We'll catch you foodies next Friday.