Food Network Obsessed

JJ Johnson on Rice as the Throughline of Our Lives

Episode Summary

Chef JJ Johnson shares how his family nurtured his passion for food and why he decided to pursue culinary school. JJ talks about his time studying in Ghana and falling in love with West African cuisine.

Episode Notes

Chef JJ Johnson shares how his family nurtured his passion for food and why he decided to pursue culinary school. JJ talks about his time studying in Ghana and falling in love with West African cuisine. He shares his affection for rice and why you can explore most every culture through their rice dishes. JJ explains why he wants to become the Michael Jordan of the culinary world and what it means to have tenacity and dedication to a craft. JJ talks about hosting The Cookout at the South Beach Food and Wine Festival and why it’s important to hold space for black culture and cuisine at these events. He discusses his James Beard nominated Food Network video explaining the versatility of collard greens and why they don’t get the hype they deserve before revealing his favorite food spot in Harlem.

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Find episode transcripts here: https://food-network-obsessed.simplecast.com/episodes/jj-johnson-on-rice-as-the-throughline-of-our-lives

Episode Transcription

Jaymee Sire:

Hello, hello and welcome to Food Network Obsessed. This is a podcast where we dish on all things food with your favorite chefs, food influencers, and food network stars. I'm your host Jamie Sawyer, and today we have a James Beard Award-winning chef with us to share his take on Afro-Asian cuisine and why he wants to become the food world's Michael Jordan. He is a chef, cookbook author, restaurateur, and entrepreneur. It's JJ Johnson. JJ, welcome to the podcast. You probably don't remember this, but we actually met in 2019 when I was hosting a show at the US Open, and the main thing I remember is you bringing some delicious rice bowls to our set. So it is so great to reconnect here. How are you?

JJ Johnson:

I’m great. I saw your name when I got the email and I was like, yeah, I know. Are from somewhere.

Jaymee Sire:

From Somewhere. Sounds familiar. Well, speaking of sports, I kind of wanna kick off this convo with something you said in an interview a few years ago. Tell me why you aspire to become the Food World's Michael Jordan.

JJ Johnson:

Oh, wow. So crazy. I brought my kids to the, their first basketball game last night, which was a Nick game, and it was just a impeccable to see like my son, like show into the game. My and my daughter like chanting defense the whole time . And it's, I think it's, it's, it's inspiring to see what athletes are able to do to young kids, make them dream really big. I think now what athletes on and off to court, and I think that the greatest thing that Michael Jordan has done and why you see LeBron now is like Jordan showed you that you could dream big and you could do a lot more than just play basketball. For him, he was a multi-let for him. He was an entrepreneur, he, he, he impacted folks. So, you know, back then when I said that I, I looked at myself as like somebody that would be in an arena right. Which the culinary worlds and arena and be around for a really long time. And hopefully my name will never expire in the streets of the culinary world. Like Jordan's name would never expire because of his sneakers. Mm-hmm. and his impact is real. He's intense. He's, he's always gonna bring his a game regardless what he's doing. It doesn't matter if it's the old generation or the new generation, they know they gotta bring their a game every time, regardless how old Jordan is or what he might be doing.

Jaymee Sire:

Yeah. No, I think that's really well said. So it's not just about being like, you know, goat status, greatest of all time. It's more about, you know, kind of helping others, you know, realize their their dreams as well.

JJ Johnson:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I think that, I mean, every young, every kick Kobe, LeBron, I mean Tiger, right? These guys expire inspired to be Jordan, even what's her name in the W N B A? I came, um, TESI like, yeah,

Jaymee Sire:

Dyna

JJ Johnson:

Tasi inspired to be Jordan and it was a, and and I I think yes, he, he was a goat on the floor, but the direct impact he had or has allowed to do that. And when I look at myself in the culinary world, I have this direct impact, uh, on the food scene of the past and the present. I have this like direct impact on communities. And now if I was to say, if you look like a just direct correlation of athlete, like me and LeBron are the same age, he makes more way more money than I do , but,

Jaymee Sire:

But than most people, I would say .

JJ Johsnon:

Yeah. But the way he thinks, right? He's like, he's a community guy. He's thinking about impacting the youth. I'm a community guy. I'm thinking about impacting the youth. He's bringing it every day, even if he's been in the game for 20 years, right? I'm bringing it every day regardless of where I go, who I'm playing against, who I'm cooking against . And for him, he's thinking about the end of the next part of his career, right? And I'm thinking like, yo, I just really got started.

Jaymee Sire:

. Well, I love that. And let's, let's talk about getting started. Let's go all the way back, because as I understand it, you started cooking when you were just four years old. So how does one reach the countertops?

JJ Johnson:

Before kindergarten, I stepped on a milk crate in my grandmother's kitchen, love, and she made me believe that I was cooking, that I was peeling, uh, carrots and onions and celery or whatever. She would throw my p potatoes, whatever she would throw my way. And the way it happened was, you know, my, my parents are working class folks. My mom was a first grade teacher at that time. She would drive to work, my dad would commute to New York City two hours a day, which I still think he's what I think about his nuts. And my grandparents live right around the corner from where we lived in Pennsylvania. And I would get dropped off at their house. And my grandmother was, that's what she did. She cooked all day, right? She would make her own chicken stock, she would get dinner ready, the house would smell amazing. There was always loud music playing. And I would just gravitate to her in the kitchen. And it was just always fun. I'm like, well, if it, if it's this fun, then I wanna do this, you know, . And I never like looking back, my grandmother definitely injected d n a into my soul. Uh, when I talk about the story, I can literally see the, the long table every time I can see my uncle, aunt Lisa, uncle Donald, my great great aunt, you know, the table was always filled with, you know, 10 people. It just wasn't just Sunday dinner. There was multiple nights of the week. And I believe, you know, doing what I do is like keeping her, her chef life alive. I mean, it's very interesting listening to my, like my older cousins or my great-aunt that's 90 now that was like, Hey, if your grandmother was still here, she would be behind. She'd be holding your chef coat. She would be in every nook and cranny. You traveled the country and cook. She would be beside you. And that just means a lot.

Jaymee Sire:

Yeah. You said it was fun. What, what was so fun about those days being in the kitchen with your grandma?

JJ Johnson:

What was really fun was like the, the vessel, the food was a vessel to bring people together. And that it would make, they would bring smiles on people's faces. My grandfather's from Barbado, so like, he would play Calypso music, they would dance if she played Latino music, she would, he would dance south. So it was like always this very fun or like energetic moment in the house. And I think a lot of immigrant families have those moments, right, of like, food is the moment of truth. It's the one thing that we all can hold onto. Nobody can take away. You could really, you could really see that in, in my grandparents' household. And, and, and when the table would be set, there'd be a lot of laughter. There would be a lot of arguing, there would be some tears, you know, that's just what happens, just happens around the table. But then you would do it all over again the next day. And yeah, I watched cartoons, but I felt like the kitchen was just a better place. Like, it, it just felt right. I don't know why. It's, it's one of the young vivid memories I still have. There's not many other me, you know, most of your memories as a kid is cuz your parents show you pictures mm-hmm. and you remember that's how you remember. But I can remember that of of, I can remember like getting dropped off in the mornings. I can remember going through the garage door. I can remember sitting on the green rug, right? Like those things are always in my mind. I can remember eating grapefruit with sugar on top and my great-aunt, like my grandmother gave me a grapefruit and like eat it. And then my grandmother, my great-aunt, my great-great aunt coming and pouring sugar on top of it for me and be like, oh, it's better now. It's better now. . So, but who knew they were gonna cultivate a chef? Right, right. Like, you know, who knew that what they did would, uh, make me who I am and I'm thankful for it.

Jaymee Sire:

And, and those Sunday dinners, those vivid memories that you speak about, how do you bring that into what your culinary point of view is today?

JJ Johnson:

I think my point of view today is like a gathering space. Mm-hmm. Every restaurant I've cooked in has always been a sense of gather, has always been a sense of expression, has always been a safe space for folks that might not be able to dine very freely without judgment. And that's how it was. That's how, that's how it's always been in my family's house for golf, if it was around the food table or playing basketball outside or friends coming over, it didn't matter what you looked like or who you were. It was, it was a safe space for all. And, and then I bring the music, the music energy, like I'm always making sure the music is right, that people are can sing along. That you can have this really memorable moment. And that's just important to me.

Jaymee Sire:

So at what point did you decide, you know, you wanted to take this, this thing that you enjoyed so much, these gatherings, the, the cooking with your grandmother and actually turn that into something you wanted to pursue as a career?

JJ Johnson:

I wanted to pursue cooking at a career at eight. Seven. At eight.

Jaymee Sire:

At eight. So you knew at eight that this is what you wanted to do?

JJ Johnson:

Yeah, I saw, I saw a commercial for culinary Suit of America at eight years old. I told my parents I was gonna be a chef. Mm. They, my mom, my mom chuckled . And you know, my parents are are the, the parents that will show up to every basketball game like that. That's the type of parents they are. But for me, cooking, my mom was really like, tough on, on this. Why are you gonna cook? Like this is a blue collar, this is a blue collar industry. Like we worked really hard for you not to be a blue, to be working blue collar. I, I have a master's degree, like I'm not putting you to go be working blue collar work. And you know, it was a lot deeper than that. Especially in the black culture. You know, people have been cooking their whole lives and it was just something that I wanted to make sure I prove, try to prove my mom wrong. Like it could, it could be a career. They say on look on tv, they say this is the greatest culinary school in America. And I was a dishwasher. I used to ride my bike to the country club. One of the only places I've ever was fired from when I was like 16, 17 years. 16 years old. Cuz the chef threw food and was trying to take food outta the garbage can. And I refused to let him serve it on the plate. Like old school stuff. Yeah, yeah. Like you seen the movies and I got fired. But it, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm pr proud, I'm prideful for that fire. But I started to go home and tell my parents I was fired. And I've been moved cooking ever since. Went to culinary school, was very rough. Was was not the best person in my class. There's plenty of times I wanted to quit. My dad would not let me quit at all. He and I, you know, I commend him. He was right. It worked out. And tho every moment was a new moment, right? Like, Hey come you don't think I should go to culinary school? Come tour these culinary schools. Let's go look at Johnson and Wells. Let's look at Culinary of America, let's look at New England culinary. And of course my mom went there and the only thing I had to promise her was that I would give, I would get my bachelor's, right? Mm-hmm. that I wouldn't just have an associate's cuz the bachelor's would help me. She said the bachelor's would help me out and my career. And sure enough, she was right.

Jaymee Sire:

So you did get your bachelor's cuz I, I, I read something that you, that you went like one 

semester and you're like, nah, I can't do this.

JJ Johnson:

Oh yeah. So I graduated culinary school, my associates, I get accepted to go to Sea Hall, something I don't talk about a lot, talk about here and there. And I was in Scene Hall University for one semester and I literally talked about food so much that people were like, yo bro, you're talking about food way too much. And, and, and some of the people from senior Hall are some of my closest friends today. Like I would say that I paid the semester, I paid for, I have some of the closest friends I remember, uh, should I get a chuckle on this? I remember being at the, in the lunch table, like in a calf in college, Uhhuh in hall and looking at the food and being like, yo, what is this coming from? Like culinary school where you're getting like everything. And at the table was like Notori Notori, who's was in, was in three l w who's on, who's on power, right? Uhhuh, she's, that's who she is now. My friend Katherine Felise, who's like head of marketing for Apple, my buddy Marquis who's an agent. And not Tori being like, yo, you sound like a snob. Like , what are you talking of? This is good lunch. I was like, no, I, I, I can't, I don't think this is a place for me. She was like, yeah, this is not the place for you. All you do is talk about, there's other things talk about, but food. And that was like a very turning moment for me was like, okay, maybe she is right, maybe I am in the wrong place. Maybe I am around the wrong people. So then I took a year off, moved back home, took a year off, and worked at a place called Skytop Lodge in the Poconos. And then I went back for my bachelor's.

And actually that year off probably defined a lot who I was, because I really got to cook food, really understood what hustling was about. I used to work in the main kitchen, in the lodge kitchen. I used to run across the, the golf course to get to the other restaurant to cook in the nighttime. The chefs there really took me under their wing. Chef Steven taught me how to do inventory. I nearly almost cut my finger off my first day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like real, real moments. But those moments I feel like define who you are, those hard moments and you should be able to like put that in, you know, put that in the tool belt and say, okay, I learned these things from here and what can I do? And then when I went from my bachelor's, I looked at the food industry a lot different. When professors were really talking to me, I was really understanding what they were talking about.

Jaymee Sire:

Another, I guess defining moment probably for you was when you went to Ghana and you spent a month cooking there, studying West African cuisine and, and really exploring the country, it's markets, it's culture. What were you hoping to discover during that time and what did you actually discover during that time?

JJ Johnson:

I'm a, I'm a big risk guy. If you know me, like I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll put it all on black. And Alexander Smalls reached out to me after being on Rockwell dinner party. Really didn't know who he was, didn't, didn't know his impact on the industry. And he said, Hey, do you wanna go to Ghana? And I had a job offered from the Tao Group to be a sous chef. Wow. Aron Aron Steakhouse at that time. And I literally said, Ellie, I literally said to my parent, my parents like, yo, I'm gonna go to Ghana. And my mom's like, you're going where ? Who are you going with? And I was like, oh, I'm going with this guy Alexander. She was like, and who is he? Do you know him? Like you now you don't need to go there. Right. And these are the moments where I try to tell people like the yellow brick road moment, like where it splits mm-hmm. . And you can go down this road and this is who you could be. Or you can go down this road and this is who you can be. And there's a lot of moments in your life and you gotta figure out which ones in the, the, the moment that you're gonna take for risk. And without the trip to Ghana, I probably wouldn't be who I am today. I, I, I, and I just went there to cook American themed dinners at this beautiful hotel called Villa Monticello. And I learned about who I was. I learned I was a kid of the African diaspora. I learned that there was so much more to food than Eurocentric cooking.

I learned that this food was a lot of me. I, there was so much remembrance of flavor and you know, there was a couple of friends, my wife now, I was just dating her at the time. She used to go to Ghana a lot to do missionary work. She's a nurse. So she would go there and she was like, yo, you're gonna find yourself like, you gotta go to the slave castles. You gotta do this. And I never got a chance to go to slave castles because of traffic. But I found myself through food. And every moment I touched food there, from the first time I had Perry Perry prs. And when I had suya after the nightclub to getting pulled over by the cops and them giving me a snack. Like there was all these moments. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was like all these moments of, of around food that I felt were like very planned. First time I had Japanese whiskey was in, was in Ghana at a sushi restaurant. Um, so there was all these moments that I felt like God had a plan for me and it was exposing me to something that nobody else in the culinary world was exposed to. Mm-hmm. . And then I would, I would come back and be able to express it on food at the Cecil. And when I, you know, when, when I developed that menu, a lot of it comes from who I was. You know, I didn't, I, I wasn't, today kids are raised a lot different. Right. Or a lot of us wanna know who we are, where we come from. So we look@ancestry.com, do these d tests. Right? But when I, when we, when I grew up, I'm sure the same thing with you, right? You weren't, your parents weren't, like if they told you you were Italian American or you were Irish American, that was it.

Jaymee Sire:

Yep. , right?

JJ Johnson:

My, my dad was very big on you. You're a black boy. Like yes, you're Caribbean, you're Puerto, you have all but you're a black boy. When you step out the house, that's who you are. It wasn't like, hey, let's just, you know, let's do this DNA test and let's see where we, who you are and where you come from and what percentage you have. But food taught me that cuz food doesn't, food doesn't have a bias, right? Mm-hmm. . And if you start to look at food and where it comes from, then you can, you get obsessed, right? You can get obsessed with it. And that's what happened with me. I got really obsessed with it. There was nowhere to do research on the food that I was looking into. You know, Afro-Asian American food, the food of the African diaspora, a big shout out to Dr. Jessica Harris. She had books on it, right? Mm-hmm. . And I wish I would've known a lot earlier that my aunt and her knew each other for many years. Wow. Yes. Like blew my mind when I found this out. But I wish I would've known a lot earlier, tells you to talk to your family cuz you just never know who they know. But my mom, this was like that mom teacher moment of like, hey, pick up an encyclopedia and start to read encyclopedias and you wanna learn about West Africa and food. The encyclopedia will start to push you in different directions. And that's what I did. And that's how I started to develop that menu. And that's when I realized who I was as a person.

Jaymee Sire:

I, I wanna keep talking about that, but I do wanna back up for a second because I need to know more about the story of you getting pulled over and the, the police giving you a snack. , what, what is that story?

JJ Johnson:

Oh, yeah. So we're like going, I'm going with the concierge to the nightclub and we, he gets pulled over by the cops and I'm like, yo, what are we, what is going on right now? And he's like, don't say anything. Don't take out passport, don't do this. And like, he's like freaking out. I'm thinking in my mind like, are, he's like, he's gonna get pulled up for like a dui, like, in my mind, thinking like all the American things. And it was just a checkpoint. It was like, Hey, what's up guys? What's going on , you're rolling through this way. We're just doing checkpoints tonight. And, and then the guy was like, we, this guy, he doesn't look like he's from here. You from here. And then I, and in my mind I'm, I'm like, maybe I shouldn't talk, but I was like, Hey, yeah, I'm just visiting. I'm staying here. I'm staying at this hotel. I did everything the person told me not to do. Right. But it just didn't feel right to do anything else. And then they were like super cool and they like threw me this like, little bag of like, I, I want to say they were, oh, what do they call, they're like similar, like, to like Black Eye, we call 'em black eye peas, but there's another name for them. I, I can't think right now. They were like fried with like spices on them. And I was like, oh, this is pretty good . Like, it's legit. And, and the dude Kingsley just like shook his head and was like, oh, thank God. I was like, yo, what can happen? He was like, we are not gonna talk about it. Let's just get to this club . Uh, yeah. So,

Jaymee Sire:

No, it seems like, like, you know, stories like that and, and some of the other things you mentioned it, it was obviously a very impactful time in your life. How, how much has that shaped just like your, your culinary voice in terms of, you mentioned the African and Asian cuisine kind of fusing together with your, you know, your style of cooking. How much do you attribute it to that time you spent there?

JJ Johnson:

I attribute it all to that time. And then the, and then, and then after that I started traveling the world a lot more. But yeah, that, that was like the door opening that was like the, an ancestors calling me, giving me my marching orders. And then the rest I was able to connect the dots. I started looking at food through the West African lens when I traveled to Singapore next. And I would eat like chili crab. And I was like, oh, this is Perry, Perry sauce.

Jaymee Sire:

JJ Johnson:

These are the same ingredients. Oh, I, I see the impact. Right? And then when you see the makeup of the people of Singapore, it's Malay, it's Chinese, it's Indian. Mm-hmm. And then you're like, oh, it's similar. Okay, who traveled this way? Oh, west Africans were came this way. Right. So you can start to see the direct correlation or, or when I was in Israel and I was on the four quarters and go through the Muslim side and you start eating the food and you're like, oh my goodness, this is West Africa. Mm-hmm. Or even a lot of Israel, you can see that west, you can see the lens of West Africa through the food. So I started to look at stuff a lot different. And when I went to India, that's when I had a lot of more respectful food from Barbados because as a kid I used to hate food from Barbados when we would go there in the summertimes. Why? But then, well it, it wasn't like the curries uhhuh, the flying fish, the coco, you know, the yellow, I mean, only thing I used to like was like yellow pepper, hot sauce. But I started to understand it and then I was like, oh, this is this roti with the chick with the chickpea curry and rice is legit , oh this from Indian, this is the Indian influence. Like you can start to see the people cuz the food tells the stories. And that's all I try to do. I I I really just cook the food of the people or like the untold stories that, that a lot of tables, a lot of homes are unable to tell a lot of things that people are not able to say. You know, there's a lot of food that haven't been on the table for a really long time. And a and a lot of immigrant, immigrant folks, his country or the world haven't been able to express it. And I think that, you know, when I look back at the Cecil, like, we're in 2023, Cecil opened two 13, that's 10 years ago. Mm. We see more food of the diaspora on the table anywhere than we've ever seen before. And especially the food of the African diaspora. And I always say without Dick Parsons and Alexander Smalls in that moment, you, you, you might have not seen that today.

Jaymee Sire:

And, and all of these influences that you're talking about are really the foundation for field trip, which is your fast casual restaurant after working in the more upscale restaurants. What about a, a casual establishment really excited you?

JJ Johnson:

Originally field trip, the model is try to be like a mama fuku, like noodle bars instead of noodle bars should be rice. My partner at the time who, you know, was, was helping on the operation side was like, yo, I don't, I don't think anybody's gonna spend $25 for a rice bowl.

Jaymee Sire:

JJ Johnson:

And I, you gonna have to rethink this. And I didn't know about fast casual. Right. Fast casual was, you know, when I started working on this was like 2015, you know, sweet green, chopped, those guys were like making this new, well Chipotle was kind of like really coming into like this big play on the east coast. You started seeing these high, these new spinoffs from it Sweet green and chopped. And I was like, all right, let me see, let me try to, let me try to build this out. And I, I kind of figured it out. But also what stopped me from doing like a full service spot at that time was I couldn't raise enough money. Hmm. So I only, I only was able to raise a certain amount of cash from friends and family and whatever I had. And the rest was like, okay, that's how I could build. So let's figure this out is work so far. Knock on wood. But yeah, that was, that that's how, that's how it really got started. I, I I I opened it in a community that believed in me and a place where I feel like people appreciated rice. Cause I feel like a lot of people don't appreciate rice. And that's that,

Jaymee Sire:

And you've said before, you know, that rice connects us all and that was kind of a, a driving force behind this concept. Why, why does Rice connect us all?

JJ Johnson:

Well, we all grew up on it. Where are you from?

Jaymee Sire:

I'm from Montana.

JJ Johnson:

Okay. Did you eat rice as a kid?

Jaymee Sire:

Well, I mean we were, this is like the eighties when a lot, you know, a lot of, a lot of boxed and canned things. So I I feel like it was a lot of like boxed rice mixes but energetic.

JJ Johnson:

That means you had a mom that worked really hard. Yep. Single mom and dad was like, I got no time to cook.

Jaymee Sire:

Exactly.

JJ Johnson:

And the commercials telling me this rice could be made in 15 minutes. Yep.

Jaymee Sire:

Exactly. ,

JJ Johnson:

No, I mean that's what happened with my mom. My mom started making box rice. I hate box rice. If I could crack the code on like really good box rice. Ooh,

Jaymee Sire:

I think you should work on that.

JJ Johnson

If I can crack the code on like beautiful box rice comes out perfectly for all the working class folks out there. Mm-hmm. so their kids can get really good rice. I, I, that would be my next, that my next move. But that's my mom made box rice, right? Mm-hmm. . And she would buy, she would buy, you know, Latino blends of rice mm-hmm. cuz she still would wanna make that rice, but had no time to make it. And me and my mom would argue, we argued about why, why I hated rice as a kid, because we would argue about this all the time. Right. You have a vivid memory of rice, you're like box rice, that was your memory as a kid. It did something for you. Some other people might have that beautiful fr fluff rice, but there's a rice dish or grain that you grew up on and that defines your culture. Mm-hmm. . And if you wanted to dive deep into a culture, you can eat a rice dish and that will tell you so much about what that culture's from. If it's bim bop from Korea, if it's Brei from India, if it's a rose go doulas from Puerto Rico or Dominican Republic. Right. If it's fried rice from China mm-hmm. would tell you with style of fried rice in the dialect of the person. So there's so many things that rice can do and break down why I'm obsessed with it. I think it's a beautiful ingredient. I think here in the United States it has no respect and that's because of just history and what occurred here. But yeah, I mean rice is a beautiful thing and people have the moment of, of eating something that can define somebody's culture. And I, and I tell people all the time, you know, if you wanna learn about, if you wanna learn about a culture you don't know about, start eating rice from that country. Start cooking those dishes, start doing those things because mo a lot of my memories you're talking about as a kid, I was in the sixth grade, I went to Matthew Davis's house, he was Korean and to this day, I still think his mom makes the best rices I've ever had. , I can remember it popping out of the rice cooker. Yeah. Which was not a thing. Right. An American household back then popping out of a rice cooker or the pot, the steam her hitting it with this vinegar and we eating this beautiful Korean rice. And, and when I see, when I run into him from time to time, he still lives in Pennsylvania. And I always make a joke like, yo, what's up? We gotta pull up to your mom's house. . But that's what rice, that's what, that's what rice does for you. Right. It was the same thing when I went to Ghana, right. Eating, eating jola for the first time at a grandma's house or you know, pineapple, black fried rice in Singapore or Briani. The many different ways people cook briani in India with the, with the crust on top without the crust and the large pot and the hawker's mark. I mean these moments are very, are are very defining moments. Or when you go to Dominican sp right here in New York and you get, you know, I get yellow rice or red beans, you know mm-hmm. . Those are, those are moments of I think that define us all. And rice is, and rice is that connectivity that can help us all out. Yeah.

Jaymee Sire:

I love that. I mean now I love rice now I eat it like a few times a a week and, and I have the rice cooker and it's, it's the best, the smell of it, you know, cooking and almost being done is like the best smell in the, in the world. JJ discusses what it's like to develop a cookbook and gives us a sneak peek into a sold out event at South Beach Wine and Food Festival called the Cookout that's up next. Um, and you actually have a cookbook about rice as well. You have two cookbooks, the Simple Art of Rice and also between Harlem and Heaven. What is your approach to developing a cookbook and, and sharing, you know, this passion that you have for food and these recipes with others?

JJ Johnson:

You know, I haven't talked about simple auditor write rice yet cuz it comes out in September.

Jaymee Sire:

Oh, okay.

JJ Johnson:

So, you know that, that, that's been a process that we've been working on for three years. Uh, and I think it have an amazing impact on society to get people the tools to be able to cook rice. And the best ways you take time and effort. You wanna make sure you have the right team around you. You wanna recipe test, you want to get the, the proper photographer and then you get to work. And the key is just finding people that believe in you a little bit more than you believe in yourself between the Harlem and Heaven was an amazing team. Veronica Chambers, you know, e epic writer has won so many different awards and for written some great memoir Marks for Chef Eric Repair. Marcus Samuelson. Right. All those books she wrote were New York Times bestsellers. I was the only one to bring her James Beard Award. We, we all won James Beard Award together, which was great. And even the photographer, right? The the person who shot between Harlem and Heaven was Beatrice Scotta. And you know, a person who is a Brazilian, are you talking about the diaspora? And the dishes really spoke to her and she was able to work with the right prop stylists, make sure it looked authentic, shoot it beautifully, and those things really matter. And then, you know, will Squabble is my editor for, was the editor before between the Harlem and Heaven and is the editor of Simpler of Rice. And you know, you, you couldn't ask for a better book editor than than Will, uh, he really understands food. He's been in the game. He keeps you honest. And those things all matter when you're, when you're building around it. And I think a lot of us when we're young, we're just so hyped to get to get something like, oh my gosh, my first restaurant, let's build it. Or this is my first book. And you never think about all the other things that might hurt you along the way. So building a really good team around yourself is really ideal. But yeah, we could jump back on and talk about the Simple Art of Rice soon, because I think that book might define me who I am in my career and really, and really put the Rice game back on a map.

Jaymee Sire:

Well we are certainly looking forward to that and also looking forward to, uh, south Beach Wine and Food Festival, which is coming up. And as you are no stranger to cooking on TV or in front of large crowds, you have a pretty, uh, exciting event coming up called the Cookout, which is already sold out by the way. Sounds like a blast. What can the people who were lucky enough to snag tickets expect in this one?

JJ Johnson:

So what you bring into the cookout?

Jaymee Sire:

? Well, I have not been invited to the cookout yet, but if I was, oh, that's a good question. If I was coming to the cookout, so my dad who passed a couple years ago, he always had, it's like the simplest appetizer ever, just like jalapeno poppers with like cream cheese and wrapped in bacon and little cilantro and lime. But they are like the, they're so simple, I love it. But they are the first thing gone at every single party. So I'd probably have to bring either my dad's poppers or my dad's baked beans.

JJ Johnson:

So I love that. Yeah. So you're, you're invited to the cookout. Okay. Yeah. Young, you get it, you get it , but that's really what it is. You know, the cookout is, is something that's really en ingrained in African American culture, black culture. Right. It's just a gathering place that that's built around food and that you can have a fun, safe time. Um, the Cookout really started, cookout is a news letter publication that me and my co-creator Eric started to like highlight black food ways in many different lights. So we talk about food entrepreneurship, who's investing, you know, why the watermelon, you know, how the watermelon became a racist thing. We talk about everything and we realize like, well, let's try to figure out how to do it as an event. And I talked to Lee Schrager at Food and Wine Festival and said, Hey, would would you be into doing this? I would love to help bring more diversity to the festival. Right. Uh, especially with black women are growing in the food space and uh, when you hear them they say there's no events for them and this, this is what it's about. So we, the goal for me was to really bring in local black businesses from Miami, local black chefs, give them a chance on the stage. Some friends that, that will come, they'll be, they'll be music and D Nice is, is co-hosting with me.

Jaymee Sire:

That's amazing.

JJ Johnson:

You can't like America's favorite dj. Right. So, and you'll, you'll get everything from like, what I bring to the cookout is potato salad. No, raisin.

Jaymee Sire:

Okay. That was gonna be my next question. What are you bringing to the cookout? ,

JJ Johnson:

Yeah, but no raisins in the potato salad.

Jaymee Sire:

No, I never understood that .

JJ Johnson:

That's why you're invited to the cookout.

Jaymee Sire:

Okay. Okay. Okay, cool.

JJ Johnson:

. And then I'm gonna do, I'm gonna do some barbecue shrimp. So barbecue shrimp and, and potato salad. I'm gonna, I I've stole my mother-in-law's potato salad recipe. I've been watching her in the kitchen. She's the most epic potato salad, so I'll try to recreate that. Uh, and then like amorous is, she's gonna bring her famous fried chicken from Chicken Jones. I think Timone, my buddy Simone's from his restaurant Fort Lauderdale, he's gonna bring some curry to the scene like vegetable curry, mac and cheese house. He's doing like 10,000 mac and cheese. I gotta see this . But so yeah, you know, you'll get to see black culture at its best. You'll get to see it in many different lenses. And I think it's gonna be epic. I mean, it's still, people are still inquiring.

Jaymee Sire:

. You had to release more tickets, right?

JJ Johnson:

I had to release more tickets and I think it could, I I would love to see it become an event at New York City Food and Wine. Oh yeah. And see it become an event. Maybe a bigger event on the beach. Even like Warren G has called to potentially perform like, yo man, I love that. It's crazy. . I said, Warren, we'll save you for next year. We'll save you for next year.

Jaymee Sire:

You had to turn Warren down.

JJ Johnson:

That’s crazy. Like Warren, like, you gonna come. He was like, he like, he's friends of, he's a, he's one of my friend's dad's friend and my friend's dad talks about me so much and was talking to him about the cookout and it just resonated with him. And he was like, yo, I gotta come, I gotta, I gotta show up to this . And I was like, no, Warren, we'll let's save this for next year. Let's do it. Let's do it. Right. You come with the crew, Snoop, everybody .

Jaymee Sire:

Okay. I definitely am coming to that cookout for sure. . That sounds epic. Epic. No, it sounds like it's gonna be a great time. I can't wait to see the photos and videos and all that, but I, no, I've, that's always been on the list of mine to, to head down there. I always love the, the one in New York, as you mentioned, but I've heard the, the South Beach one is a, a totally different vibe, so No, it sounds like a very, very different vibe. A lot of fun. Anybody bringing Collar Greens to the cookout? Because you have a really great video on Food Network, which by the way was also nominated for a James Beard Award. So anybody bringing the greens to the cookout?

JJ Johnson:

I gotta check, I gotta check who's bringing the greens to the cookout? I'm sure they'll be there. Yeah. In some type of form. I'm not bringing 'em this time, but I will bring 'em next time. And that video is epic. Like many people don't know. We shot that video in the pandemic. Mm-hmm. It was a big shout out to the Food Network team on that. We went at my restaurant, everybody was like masked up one camera person, everybody on Zoom. And we shot this phenomenal everything you need to know about Collard Greens. I got nominated for a James Beard award, which, you know, I was hoping to win because the story behind it and the team just worked really hard on it was, it was, it wasn't just about me. And another, I think the, I think the Collard Green has worked harder than kale, which it needed to get some respect. Yeah.

Jaymee Sire:

Um, why doesn't it get more respect?

JJ Johnson:

I’m not, you know, the collard green is the true American green. Mm-hmm. . Like, it's not something that like grew in Ghana and came over to America like this is the true green of America. But I'm not sure, you know, at one point people didn't want it, people didn't want to eat it. Right. It was, it was, it was, it was a leftover green, you know, uh, where were, were slaves were eating it. And I, you know, things, things in America have so much stereotype, which is unfair because it just grew and people were just cooking and, but I love the Collard Green you could get at Field Trip. It's in our walk vegetables. The collard green at Field Trip is like the McDonald's french fry people. If I took it out, I think they would go crazy on me.

Jaymee Sire:

is that popular, huh?

JJ Johnson:

Yeah, it's very popular.

Jaymee Sire:

All right, well if you have not seen it, check it out on food network.com. It's, you know, like you said, everything from choosing the Greens to cleaning them, storing them, pickling the stems. A lot of good stuff in there. We are running a bit little bit short on time. I would love to keep talking to you. Uh, this has been fantastic, but we are going to finish things off with a little rapid fire round and then we have one final question for you that we ask everybody here on Food Network Obsessed. So, rapid fire round, favorite food spot in Harlem, aside from your own

JJ Johnson:

Favorite food spot in Harlem? Ooh, so hard. Harlem is so big. I know. It's Rapid Fire. Melva.

Jaymee Sire:

Melva Melva is great. Your life mantra.

JJ Johnson:

It's on my, it's on my arm. It's passion plus drive Equal success.

Jaymee Sire:

Uh, do you believe in luck?

JJ Johnson:

Yeah. If you hit the lotto

Jaymee Sire:

. Love it. To do that. Is there a food network chef you would love to cook with that you haven't already?

JJ Johnson:

Oh wow. Is Ina is ina original food Network choice.

Jaymee Sire:

Yeah. You could say Ina for sure. Ia Queen. Queen Ina ia. . What gets you outta bed every day?

JJ Johnson:

My kids . Well, lemme stop like my dog. Yeah.

Jaymee Sire:

Pets. Pets. Get you outta bed first. How do you take your coffee?

JJ Johnson:

I don't drink it. Okay.

Jaymee Sire:

Tea or nothing?

JJ Johnson:

Nope. Just a glass of water.

Jaymee Sire:

All right. Dream travel. Destination?

JJ Johnson:

Wow. I'm gonna say dream travel destination's gonna probably be for my 40th. We're probably gonna do Greece or Italy. Okay. So, but dream travel, that's so hard for me. I wanna go to so many places in the world.

Jaymee Sire:

, they're all on the list, right?

JJ Johnson:

They're all on it.

Jaymee Sire:

All right. So final question is not rapid fire. You can take as long as you want. On this one, we are wondering what would be on the menu for your perfect food day. So, breakfast, lunch, dinner, dessert. There are no rules. You can time travel, spend as much money as you want, you know, regular travel around the world in one day. Whatever you wanna do to, to kind of fill out that perfect food day.

JJ Johnson:

All right. Perfect. Food day is breakfast with my kids in the morning. It's oatmeal and cereal and some bagels with peanut butter on it. Perfect. Lunch would be field trip anywhere in the world. You said I can, you said I can think in the future. So field trip. Field trip. Anywhere in the world.

Jaymee Sire:

Okay. And what are you, what are you eating at your field?

JJ Johnson:

Trip? What am I eating at Field trip? I'm probably eating the shrimp bowl, which is coconut sticky rice, shrimp, uptown curry with the wag vegetables side of plantains and a dragonfruit lemonade. Yum. And I'm sure my team is there with me. O' dolly, Kara, Lisa. We're all, we're all eating together. And then dinner. Oh shit. Dinner's hard.

Jaymee Sire:

.

JJ Johnson:

There's definitely a snack in there.

Jaymee Sire:

Definit. Yeah, you can throw, oh yeah, I'm sorry. You can throw snacks in too.

JJ Johnson:

Definitely. There's definitely a snack in there after lunch because I, I, I don't stop eating.

Jaymee Sire:

so what are you having?

JJ Johnson:

For snacks? There's definitely a snack in there.

Jaymee Sire:

What's the, what's the go-to snack?

JJ Johnson:

Go-to snack. It really depends on where I am, but we'll just say there's a snack. I don't know what it is.

Jaymee Sire:

Okay. There is a snack.

JJ Johnson:

There's a snack and then dinner would be with my wife. It would definitely be Italian food cuz she loves Italian food. And we would definitely be eating pasta. We'd probably be in like a, a dope spot in a cor in, in a corner restaurant in Florence. Drinking table wine, laughing and just enjoying life.

Jaymee Sire:

Ah, well that sounds like a perfect day and a perfect dinner and, and end to that perfect food day. Thank you so much for taking the time. Loved getting to chat with you and look forward to much more from you coming in the near future.

JJ Johnson:

No, I appreciate it. It was a blast. I'll see you at the cookout. Yes. . Bring your dad's jalapeno poppers.

Jaymee Sire:

I will

JJ Johnson:

When No end the beans. And I'll let you know who makes the collard greens at this year's cookout. Perfect. Thanks a lot for having me.

Jaymee Sire:

Such a pleasure chatting with JJ. And I need to make my way to field trip for one of those rice bowls, A S A P. Make sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss a thing. And if you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review. We love it when you do that. That's all for now. We'll catch you foodies next Friday.