Food Network Obsessed
Kathy Fang on Collaboration, Experimentation and Maintaining a Taste of Tradition
Episode Summary
Two-time Chopped champion, chef, restaurateur and entrepreneur Kathy Fang reveals all of her thoughts behind her new reality show, Chef Dynasty: House of Fang.
Episode Notes
Two-time Chopped champion, chef, restaurateur and entrepreneur Kathy Fang reveals all of her thoughts behind her new reality show, Chef Dynasty: House of Fang. The quiet competitor unpacks why growing up in her family’s booming San Francisco restaurant left her hungry for a different lifestyle, driving her brief pursuit of 9 to 5 office jobs. She explains how her love for connecting with people through food, passion for experimenting with new ideas and traditional personality inspire her own restaurant’s menu and atmosphere. Kathy reveals what really goes into the “Fang Flavor,” how her culinary perspective influences her professional and personal relationship with her parents, and her aspirations for her one-of-a-kind restaurant, House of Fang. She shares what recipe this chef mastered first, her favorite memories from Chopped and the Hong Kong dish she misses most.
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Learn More About Chef Dynasty House of Fang here: https://www.foodnetwork.com/shows/chef-dynasty-house-of-fang
Find episode transcripts here: https://food-network-obsessed.simplecast.com/episodes/kathy-fang-on-collaboration-experimentation-and-maintaining-a-taste-of-tradition
Episode Transcription
Jaymee Sire:
Hello, hello and welcome to Food Network Obsessed. This is the podcast where we dish on all things food with your favorite chefs, food influencers, and food network stars. I'm your host Jaymee Sire, and today we have a two-time Chopped champion on the podcast to talk about her new food network show. And growing up in her father's iconic Chinatown restaurant, she's a chef restaurateur entrepreneur, and her family stars in the brand new Food Network show, chef Dynasty House of Fang, it's Kathy Fang. Kathy, welcome to the podcast and congrats on the brand new show.
Kathy Fang:
Thank you, Jaymee. I'm very excited to be here and um, happy to share as much about the show as you'd like to know.
Jaymee Sire:
Yeah, well, as a former San Francisco resident, I am so looking forward to talking about Chef Dynasty House of Fang that premiered at the end of December. This was a project that was actually developed and filmed during the pandemic. So what does it feel like for it kind of to finally be out there in the world for everybody to enjoy? It
Kathy Fang:
Feels surreal, although the shooting itself didn't take extremely long. The project itself actually took almost two years from like, oh wow. The infancy to it now actually like coming to ear and to premiere. So it almost felt like, oh, this is just not gonna happen. It's just taking so long and the uncertainty of like filming during the pandemic, right. Trying to navigate all the protocol. So I feel like very blessed and lucky that this is finally actually happening cuz So there's so many ways this could not have happened or mm, things could have gone wrong. But yes, it feels surreal and we just are so grateful and we feel so lucky for this to come to light.
Jaymee Sire:
Yay. Well, we are so excited to talk much more about the show in a little bit, but I wanna, I wanna take everybody back a little bit because you are no stranger to TV or Food network. You are a two-time chopped champion. You've also made appearances on Alex versus America beat Bobby Flay guys grocery games. Would you say that you are a naturally competitive person?
Kathy Fang:
Yeah, I am definitely naturally very competitive, but I like to say that I'm kind of a quiet competitor. Okay. You know, a lot of people look at me and they underestimate me sometimes based on just the way that I look. I don't look like a tickle chef. I'm also quite small and petite. I've had a lot of people say, there's no way you're a chef. Like, how do you even lift the walk? And also the fact that I grew up in my family's restaurant, a lot of people assume that I kind of, I'm like riding on my parents' coattails and I like don't actually know how to run a business or cook. I just talk about how like, oh, I grew up there and I have this restaurant, but I do everything. And so I kind of like to not talk about myself when I compete. I'm usually the very quiet one. And unless you ask me, I still don't share a ton. And so to me, like being able to prove them wrong, they're p preconceived notions. It's like the ultimate, you don't know where I'm coming from.
Jaymee Sire:
No, I love that. I mean, you let your food do the talking for for sure. I mean, it kind of almost sounds like, do you take that as something to help fuel that fire and give you more of an edge? Do you kind of take it personally? Yes,
Kathy Fang:
Absolutely. I take that personally. And another aspect of it is that sometimes, you know, Chinese food doesn't really get the same level of respect either, right. It's not seen as like a super elevated cuisine. It's not like a ton of Chinese restaurants are three Michelin stars and things like that. So when they think, oh, you own a Chinese restaurant, they're kind of like, oh, and it's mom and pop. Oh, and, and I opened a place with my dad. They're just, they're kind of like, oh, you know, that's not quite on our echelon, right? Mm-hmm. , because I've worked with so-and-so and done this and done that. So it's almost like I'm not only trying to prove them wrong in respect of how they see me, but also I wanna make our cuisine proud. Right. Be like, Hey, Chinese food is like a cuisine to be reckoned with. It's like just as difficult to execute perfectly than any other cuisine.
Jaymee Sire:
Why do you think that it has that stigma? I guess
Kathy Fang:
I think maybe it started with the way that it was introduced. You know, it was introduced as more like common food and the people who were doing it at the time were doing it as a way of living. Right. Like survival. And so they were just bringing in the food that they knew and were selling it at like a very affordable price because that made it more accessible to people. And now I feel like it's starting to change, but the preconceived notions of Chinese food has to be super affordable and cheap, or takeout boxes for it to be good. And if it's super fancy, it's like, oh, it's not authentic anymore. You know, we u we use very high quality ingredients and Chinese food actually incorporates a lot of very expensive ingredients. Mm-hmm. , but it's not, it's still not very well known to people. So, you know, we have our own versions of truffles. It's not truffles or caviar, but we do things like abalone mm-hmm. or, you know, or we have things like Harry Crab that are crazy expensive. I think it'll take a lot of time and exposure for that to come to light. But it, it's definitely starting.
Jaymee Sire:
What's it been like for you to kind of give some of that light and exposure to this cuisine that is obviously so special to
Kathy Fang:
You? Well, you know, I feel like, okay, I'll, I'm gonna give a little background. So like, house of Nan King is very whole in the wall. And so, you know, in that sense we haven't really been pushing that aspect. Like House of NA is all about accessibility, affordability. It's not fancy food. It is just downright good Chinese food, right. To the point where people will come and be like, oh my God, I have never had Chinese food like this before. I don't know what you put in it, but it is incredible. And people been coming for 33 plus years for that with Fang. It's a concept that I opened with my dad and now there's like a fresh new perspective. Right. And you know, I'm going in trying to show a different level of Chinese food. It still is reminiscent of name King, but it's fancier. Mm-hmm. , you know, we now can be a place that you can also host really important corporate events and parties and Pryor and, and no one would even think about doing something like that at a Chinese restaurant. There'll be like, oh, it'll be, you know, pink tablecloths and a big lazy season with things that we probably don't want to eat. You know, like things that are kind of weird. So we don't try to do anything that's weird per se, but we're showing people that you can have Chinese food in a refined, elevated space that can rival any event space here and host, you know, we've hosted Microsoft, Warner Brothers, Facebook, like all these major companies and celebrities will come and like do events at Fang. Mm-hmm. And that's a huge, huge step from, you know, takeout boxes to, it needs to be cheap and having Ching da beer, which is where we kind of started at House of Making to the point where people are ordering like cais, you know, at Fang and having really fabulous parties.
Jaymee Sire:
That's awesome. Let, I wanna kind of dive into both of those a little bit. Let's start with House of Nan King. A place I've definitely visited many times during my, my my time in San Francisco. And, you know, just love everything that you've kind of described and that you can kind of go in there and just ask for whatever the chef recommends or whatever's, you know, seasonal or, or or current on, on the menu and that kind of thing. Can you just talk about though what it was like for you basically growing up in that restaurant in Chinatown in San Francisco? What are some of your memories from that time?
Kathy Fang:
So I would say that the number word, one word that would come into mind as colorful Mm. And then the second would be like crazy because House of Na King is one of the busiest restaurants in San Francisco. Okay. And it's been that way for over 33 years. If you walk inside, it's so chaotic, right? There's people running all over the place. You have people bumping into you, you're sharing tables with, with you, with other people. There are times that you're not even sitting on a chair. You're sitting on like a beer box, right? It's like chaos. It's not a place that you would ever imagine a seven year old kid could just like use as their daycare because that's what I used, used House of Na King as right Daycare. Cuz they didn't, they couldn't afford having nannies and whatnot. And so the times when they couldn't get relatives to check in and take care of me, I spent every making moment in that restaurant. And so I'll start with like sort of, there's kind of an aspect of it that was really rough and difficult for me. And then obviously the positive aspect, right? Mm-hmm. , the part that was difficult for me being raised in there was for one, there are a lot of times that I felt resentment toward, towards my parents because of the life, right? Like I didn't have a normal life, a normal upbringing. I slept at the restaurant most of the time till midnight. Sometimes 1:00 AM on a school night when, you know, I would really love to actually be home and do, I don't wanna say like homework, but you know, like do kid stuff, right? Right. And have my parents at home. We could sit around a dinner table and eat and watch TV because that's what I thought like all kids were doing. But I was, I never had that opportunity. The only time I could spend with my parents was at the restaurant. So there was this level of resentment. I'm like, I don't want that for myself when I have kids. And then the other aspect was that it was really hard for me to actually see my parents work so hard that like, it requires a lot of blood, sweat, and tears. There were nights when, you know, because my dad, here's an example. My dad was trying to save money and he had to clean the fans. And I remember distinctly my mom's like, you know, you should get professionals to do this, right? Like, you don't know how to do this. And he's like, I could figure it out. This is not complicated. And the fan was moving, he was sticking this towel in, the towel, got like pulled gosh. And his gosh hand got pulled and he almost got his finger cut off. Ugh. He created such a big gash. He was bleeding like crazy. Like I was almost traumatized. And there would be so many instances where, you know, the restaurant can be a dangerous place cooking, right. Crazy burns and all this stuff. And it was very hard as a young kid to see your parents work so hard to make both the business successful, but also like it was a way of living right? To support me and to make sure I had a better life. That was the negative part. I think that was the part that was hard. But obviously that outweigh, you know, the positive stuff outweighed all of that because look at where I am now. . I like am following my parents' footsteps. The best part about growing up in house of banking is, you know, I naturally had a passion for food and cooking and I was able to experience a chef's life as a kid. Hmm. So, you know, I got to see my dad create all these amazing dishes I got, I learned at a year, really early age to talk to people that I didn't know. Right. It like, this is, I think like a really important aspect of sometimes being a chef. Sometimes you meet chefs that are shy, they don't wanna talk, they're like hiding in in the kitchen. I have no problem coming out and being like, yeah, let's talk about the food and all that stuff. And so, you know, I'm bored. I'm sitting there, I'm like anybody cause anybody can talk to me. Like, talk to me please. . So I learned that really important aspect and I fell in love with that. I got to meet so many different people. People that I still talk to that still come to Fang and House of Nan King, but they're bringing their kids and their grandkids. You make this level of connection with people that if I was working an office job, I would never do that. You know? And then on top of that, another really big perk of being up late is on the weekends my dad would actually make it a point to take us out to eat. And back then San Francisco was like popping like at midnight and one in Chinatown North Beach and what we would call the Red Light District and House of Makings right around the corner. So he'd close shop and take me, my grandparents like, cuz it's hard for him to spend time with family. So that was the time after we closed shift. And I would go and eat at all these really exciting places in North Beach and had like the most amazing pastas and amazing like Chinese food late night. And so that was something that I like, would look forward to every weekend. So, you know, it fostered, it fed the passion that I naturally had for the industry and cooking. But you know, the, it definitely had the, I guess it's up and downs.
Jaymee Sire:
Yeah. I mean, at least, at least I guess you knew what you were getting into, right? You, you've seen mm-hmm. , you've seen both the negative and the positive. Yeah, it definitely did. Did you know like at a young age that you wanted to follow in your parents'
Kathy Fang:
Footsteps? Actually, I did not want to fall into my parents' footsteps for two reasons. One, because I wanted a nine to five job . I would watch people have fun and cheers with their beers. I was like, oh, I wanna hang out with my friends. I wanna like sit down with my kids every night at six. I can't do this. And then that was like completely wrong, right? Obviously not right for me. And then I was also super traditional. So my parents, just like every Chinese immigrant, they don't want their kids to go be a chef. Mm-hmm. and own a hole in the wall restaurant. They want them to become doctors and lawyers. If you could be a surgeon that would be even better . And so that's what I was striving to be like from youth to all the way till I hit like college and college. I was like, all right, I'm gonna go have an office job. I'm gonna go work in the corporate world and make lots of money doing that. And that was totally the wrong direction for me. I felt very stifled, uninspired and bored. And that's when I actually made that switch. That's when I realized I need to do something that I'm really passionate about. Otherwise I'm, I'm gonna suck at it. I'm just mm-hmm. , sorry I don't let me manage your money and be like a .
Jaymee Sire:
What did your dad say when you told him that you, you wanted to pursue that?
Kathy Fang:
I think my dad secretly loved it. . I have to point out that my dad never at any point when I was young, even alluded to wanting me to take over. Never. He's never been like, oh, have you ever thought about, you know, doing what we do? Never. Because I think he knew this is like a really tough industry. It's very hard on your body and they just, they wanted a better life for me. Right. And they also didn't know that House of NA was gonna become like such a crazy success. Like, you know, you're like, oh, things are going really well and we're very grateful. But like they could, they have ever imagined there'd be a show on Food Network about it. , no. Right. Like never. They're just doing their thing. And so yeah, they never pushed for it. And when I told him and my dad never, I mean he never tells me like a lot of what he's really truly thinking sometimes cuz he doesn't wanna influence like this important decision in my life. Right? And so he was kind of like, okay, well what do you wanna do? I'm like, well I wanna move back. I was living in LA at the time and he was already kind of like, okay, well I just paid like a leg in an arm for USC education in
Jaymee Sire:
Business .
Kathy Fang:
And you know, you worked at Merrill Lynch, I worked at Neutrogena and now you wanna come home and work at House of Na King. And I'm like, yeah, like I think food is the way to go. But secretly, he's never said this to me, , but secretly, I know he was like jumping for joy of course. But he did say later that even when I was young, right? He felt like there was something different about me in terms of how I talked about food. How I would eat something. Even at like six or seven, I would try to break down, oh how would I make this? Or if it wasn't that good, I'd be like, how would I make it better? Hmm. And my dad thought it was like fascinating cuz it wasn't him trying to push me or just like having lunch and catching up and he'll just, I'll just be like, oh, you know, this wasn't as good as that one because I think they could have done this better and that, and so he always knew there was something like unique there, but he never pushed for it.
Jaymee Sire:
What was the first thing you learned how
Kathy Fang:
To cook? The first thing that I learned how to cook is [inaudible] Okay. It sounds very, very simple, but you know, house of making super busy, the walk is really large. And so I wasn't really able to learn my first dish there. I, there was also no time for me to sneak in and be like, oh let me make something. And so I was always pushing my grandma to let me make something of the days that she would watch me. And finally she's like, okay, well well let's make something really simple. And to this day I still remember this recipe so well and like make this for my kids. I remember standing on this pink wooden chair that I would use to wash my hands with and she had a really tiny place and you know, the stove was small. She had this little mini walk and true traditional Shanghainese wave cooking vegetables, minced garlic and oil. You put the bach choy in, you give it a good to, and then you add a touch of water, put the lid on top and a minute later open a backup stir, stir fry, add salt, sugar and M S G. And she used to say, M mss G makes you smarter . Uh, like that's just how they grew up. And so, and after that we would add a little slurry and bring it all together. Sometimes she would add a touch of like sesame oil on top because to make the perfect box choy, you actually want it to be glistening and kind of shiny with not a ton of sauce but flavorful at the same time. So, wow. Just even that simple dish, she taught me this balance. Right? It can't just be all salt, you need a little pinch of sugar mm-hmm. to balance it out so it's not salty. But then there needs to be the MSG umami. Yes. And I made that for my parents, you know, I practiced, made it for them. And even at that moment, like the desire to like impress them with this dish, like tell me, give me, I was like a chef. I was like, tell me what's your feedback? Like what's your critique ,
Jaymee Sire:
You
Kathy Fang:
Know, what did I do wrong and how could I improve? Or is it perfect ?
Jaymee Sire:
Wait, how old were you again?
Kathy Fang:
Seven. When they opened the restaurant. Wow. And so, yes.
Jaymee Sire:
Well, yeah, speaking of which, I mean this is a restaurant that's been around since 1988 and like you said, you know, your parents didn't really, you know, have ambitions of it being as successful as it is or maybe, you know, you know, ideas that it would be, what do you think about that restaurant is so unique that it has, you know, stood the test of time and kind of, you know, set itself apart from the others?
Kathy Fang:
I think one of the number one reasons is the fact that my parents who, you know, open the place together, still work there. , Uhhuh, they work there every single day, right? 365 days a year house of making, so actually sorry, 364 days House of Making is open. We close on Thanksgiving, okay. But we are open on Christmas day and Christmas Eve and we are open all day. There's no, no break in between. How many restaurants do you know where the owner and chef is literally there all the time, right? So they control the vibe, the food, right? If they were not there, I don't know if it would necessarily last so long. And I think that part makes it like very unique. And then obviously like the food, right? Mm-hmm. the food, you know, a lot of people will say, I've had obviously a lot of Chinese food, but I've never had Chinese food like this before. And I think we pride ourselves in our sauces in the way that we approach traditional Chinese dishes. When people ask us, hey, like you know, like what cuisine does this fall into? Like what region of China is this Shanghai or Cantonese? And it's like we can't really pinpoint it and we always go, oh, it's like from here . It's just like the way that we approach all of our dishes. Sure. We serve all the traditional stuff like egg rolls, wonton soup, fried rice, low main. But we put our own spin on it to the point where it does, it's not fusion but, and it's still tastes distinctly Chinese but different Hmm. In a way where you know, you'll get reactions like, oh my God, like what is this? Like what is in here? Why is this lo made so good? You know? Or I've never had Guan soup like this. And so I think that's what we strive for and it honestly started with the way that we would go out and eat at restaurants, right? We'd go out and of course my grandparents always wanted to eat Chinese food. . It was like really? When I was a kid, I'm like, don't you wanna go eat something else? ? No. Every weekend is Chinese food. And then guess what? You eat the same thing every, no matter how many different restaurants you go to, it's the same thing I can just tell you off the top of my head. And so we're like, we get born and we're like, why can't we just do something a little different? Like it's still Chinese food, it's still wantan soup, but hey this is a little different. Maybe throw a different vegetable in there, maybe change up the bra. So that's how it all started. And I think that's what makes us distinctive. Like the food, the flavors. People will say this, this is like fang flavor or this is like Haan King flavor. I've
Jaymee Sire:
Never had, you have your own subset. This we have
Kathy Fang:
Flavor. And then lastly, it's the fact that you go to ha and a King, you're like, oh this hasn't changed. Mm-hmm. , even when I came, when I was like in my twenties, Mr. Fang is still here and he's still like, you know, pushing people around and be like, you need to eat this and you need to order that. And my mom's still there. The rest, the staff that works there has been there for over 10 to 20 years. Wow. Like it feels almost like home. Right? It has not changed.
Jaymee Sire:
What do you think is the most valuable lesson you've learned from your father in the restaurant business?
Kathy Fang:
I would say there's two things that I've learned from being around my dad and my mom too. Number one is like the, the work ethic, right? Like how hard they work. I don't know anybody who works as hard as they do and for something to be successful and to last for so long requires that, right? And so even though I had a way better life than they did, I will never lose sight of that. And I think that's very hard to teach. Mm-hmm. like I have kids now, right? They're five and two and they're freaking spoiled as hell. because you know, my parents, my parents and naturally right? Naturally they're not gonna be be like I lived in an S R O where I took a bath in the middle of the bedroom and we had shared bathrooms, right? And they're like, oh, that's too dirty. We can't do that. The kitchen was there. And so through my life experiences, I was able to get a taste of how hard it is to come from nothing to gain all of the success is hard work. I saw all the blood, sweat and tears. Mm-hmm. , that's something you can't teach. It's like you gotta be around it. And so I, I learned all of that by being with my parents. And so I think it's add extra, extra importance to me and maintaining our legacy and our business and wanting to grow it into something even bigger. Mm-hmm. . Um, the other thing that I think that I've learned just working with my parents is humility. You know, like if you look at my parents a anywhere, right? My dad literally wears the house of making hoodie 24 7 . He wears the same shoes. I'll be at like, the shoes is all about comfort now cuz he's 74 and you know Sure. Being on your feet all day they hurt. Um, is it's like no one would ever guess that they've done well. Right? You would probably think they're just like some person from Chinatown, . And I feel like that that humility is important when you have accomplished like a level of success, right? Mm-hmm. , don't get too comfortable, don't let it get to your head. Right? It is very hard to grow something from where they started to get to this point. And so it's always important to, to make note of that and to appreciate where we are, the successes that we've gained. I think the pandemic also kind of put that into like this crazy sort of mindset. We're like, oh my God, we could like lose all of this after all that hard work. But we're like, nope. We still know like what it takes to, to get back to that point. And so yeah like take the ego out and make sure there's like humility
Jaymee Sire:
In there. . I guess on the flip side, is there anything that comes to mind that you've been able to teach him either through, you know, your degree in operations management and entrepreneurship or just like the perspective that you bring to the family business?
Kathy Fang:
Yeah, I think what I've been able to bring in when it comes to my dad would be my younger perspective. You know, we create, we, we approach food the same way. Like we want to make something even tastier than the original version of it. Mm-hmm . But because I have a lot more experience with traveling and I do have a social life, my parents are in the restaurant most of the time, they really don't get to experience a ton of different cuisines. I bring in that perspective of like, hey, I just tried this recently and you know, I kind of think like we should try to cook with brussel sprouts or I feel like we should try this and we should try that. And my dad's usually like, Ooh, I don't know about that. Like , I see brussel sprouts in Chinatown all the time. It doesn't sell. Like people don't like it . I'm like, no, because it's in Chinatown. Like they don't know what Brusselsprouts is. That doesn't mean it's a bad vegetable . He's like, oh it does really bet poorly. Like they're trying to give it away for free. You know, like . So like I bring a fresh perspective. My dad is also like not well versed in Western cuisine. Mm-hmm. and international cuisine. It's not that he doesn't appreciate it, he just doesn't have the time to go and enjoy all of that. So when he tastes things, he'll actually ask me, he was like, oh how do you think they made this sauce? Or like, how do they do this? And I'm like, I get to be like, oh well you know, , here's my culinary degree and works and like the experiences that I have and also I've been able to modernize and expand the business. So, you know, house of making is a hole in the wall place. We used to have a lot of people come in and say, Hey I wanna do like a wedding here or a rehearsal dinner or a company event cuz the food is so good, but it's like impossible cause the place is so tiny. Mm-hmm and it's so rambunctious they don't like to even have reservations because they're like five minutes into it and they're like, they're not here. Like cancel it, you know, so that it's like it doesn't work cuz they're like, we have a full line here, we can't save tables with Fang. It seats 300 people at once. Wow. And so I've been able to make use of that and expand this whole thing where we can do company events, corporate events, get our name out there even more. Those are things that, like my parents, my dad, he's, he'll be like, okay, like she's been able to do this. I would not know how to even begin. For one, if we do events, I'm like, I can do email , my dad would like write a oh a hundred people. Sure. He'll write it on a little note and like stick it on there and be like, yeah, just show up. Like no one would book something and be like, oh, just show up. They're like, you don't understand, just show up or posting. You know, like all these important clients just show up and on a piece of paper, no one would book that. Right. Um, so yes, I introduced technology , I modernize through efficiency and have been able to grow the family business in. And I know ways that my parents appreciate it.
Jaymee Sire:
Kathy discusses her new food network show, chef Dynasty house of Fang. Up next again, chef Dynasty, house of Fang, which premiered in December in just kind of showcasing how you guys work together. What is your professional relationship like with your dad? ?
Kathy Fang:
What is it like? Oh, so I would say that all, like all in all my professional relationship with my dad is a really good one. Mm-hmm. , if it was not good, we would not be here. Fang has been around for 13 years. That's a major wow. Feat in San Francisco for one. Yeah. And to survive the pandemic. And I think that the reason why it works out so well is because at the end of the day, my dad and I really do think the same way as far as how we wanna like, develop dishes and how we wanna like push our brand and stuff. But sometimes the way that we wanna do it kind of collides, right? Because I, I'm younger, I have like a new way of doing things and he's been doing this for so long, he's 74. He's sort of like, if it's not broken don't fix it. And I'm like, well don't you want it to grow even more? Right? Don't you want to , we we're onto something here, right? Like this is special, 33 years House of Van Kang, 14 years fang. Like there is something special here. And we like, yeah, slow and steady wins the race, but we don't wanna sit on this like, we should see what, where can we take this? And that is, I think the one aspect that can be kind of difficult. And also I am super, super traditional. Like I almost to the point of like, I don't even know if I can say this, like Chinese, like fabi, like they call it fresh off the boat. Oh. Meaning I honor cultural like traditions to the t to the point where it's like you never really outwardly disagree with your parents because they're elders and you respect them. You never try to push your way to make things uncomfortable because you just don't do that. And sometimes I battle between that, between, you know, what we would un how we would understand a female, let's say entrepreneur in western culture should be like, it should be like, oh, push your way. You're 40, right? You should absolutely go do what you think you should do and prove your parents wrong. And in our culture it's not quite that. You just can't, like you have to like, if I'm gonna go and make changes, I also want my parents to be on board, right? Mm-hmm. , it's not just me, it's Fang family, right? Yeah. It's not just me. There's my mom and my dad and I feel like there's a, there's a place where we can actually do it. Where it's not a brave is it's not aggressive to the point where it could harm our relationship. Like the most important thing is the legacy that my parents have created. And I don't ever want them to feel that I'm pushing in ways that would jeopardize that or change it in any way. I just wanna grow it. And there are different perspectives on it, but we will find common ground and figure it out. And that's kind of like what the show's about, right? Like
Jaymee Sire:
Yeah, absolutely. And how
Kathy Fang:
Do we get there?
Jaymee Sire:
How do you, and, and that's like, I guess that kinda leads into my next question. I mean, you wanna grow the business, you wanna push the boundaries somewhat. So how do you balance that? How do you like calculate which risks you wanna take while still staying true to that, that tradition and that culture that you, you speak of?
Kathy Fang:
It's a trial and error.
Jaymee Sire:
,
Kathy Fang:
You know, I, I'll it's like, let's try this and see what his reduction is. , you know, and I'm like, oh, I feel like he, he was kind of like, yes maybe. So it's really trial and error. Try to throw as many things as possible at him and see what sticks. And if it sticks then let's push that even a little further. Sometimes I do it without him knowing and see if he even notices
Jaymee Sire:
,
Kathy Fang:
You know, I've done that before and there are funny conversations at the restaurant sometimes where he'll come in and, which he does right? Every single day to Fang looks at things and specs things, tastes things and there's a dish that comes out and he'll be like, what's this? And they're like, oh, I mean this is the lotus chicken that's been here for like two years. And she's like, what? I've never seen this before. Did you guys create this? And they're like, no, your daughter did what
Jaymee Sire:
.
Kathy Fang:
And then, you know, what's gonna happen is he'll be like, okay, two days later he's gonna go in and do all this stuff. I'm gonna go into the kitchen. And I'm like, wait, why is the lotus chicken made this way? They're like, you're dad
Jaymee Sire:
dad just
Kathy Fang:
Said we're gonna do this. There's also weird funny like kind of push and pull that way too. Yeah.
Jaymee Sire:
It's like, that's weird. Understandable.
Kathy Fang:
We're like, sometimes it's hard to directly be aggressive with each other cuz I'm his daughter and he's my dad, right? So we sometimes we do this roundabout thing where it's like, oh, I didn't know you didn't know there was this new dish . And he's like, oh, I didn't know that you could, like I said, to make it this way. I'm like, dad, you didn't even create this dish . Like why are you changing it? You don't know what the sauce is. He's like, well, because this just makes it better.
Jaymee Sire:
I mean, because you are, you are a formally trained chef, so what, yes. What is that role like in, in, in terms of innovating or, or creating new dishes? Like are you, like is it a collaborative effort or are you guys kind of like you mentioned like sometimes working separately and, and hope it all kind of comes together on the end. ?
Kathy Fang:
Yes. So I would say maybe like 30 or 40% of the time it's collaborative. Okay. In fact, one of our most popular dishes, the fang's Crispy Honey Chili short rib was created by both, it's my mom, myself, and my dad. Oh. It went through these three renditions. Like my mom basically made this like crispy beef just as like lunch for herself. I tried it and I was like, oh wow, this is good. Right? But it's dry. So then I went and like experimented with it and created this sauce for it and I started just making it like as an off menu dish for customers at fang, which is very regular. My dad sees it and he is like, oh, all these people like really like it and they're talking about it and he's like, what is this? He tried it and then he was like, oh this is great, but you know what would make it even better? And then he added this B Choi element to it. Hmm. That was like cold and hot, crispy, sweet, spicy. Like all, it's like an explosion of flavors. And then that now is like one of our most iconic like fang dishes and we even now have it at Na King. Right. There are just some dishes where it's just like, boom. Like everybody comes in and they're like, that's what I want.
Jaymee Sire:
That's so cool. Some
Kathy Fang:
People call it the beef Brownie
Jaymee Sire:
. And
Kathy Fang:
So . And so a lot of times it's a collaboration, right? It is like a family business. And then a lot of other times I just end up creating dishes and my dad has his own set. He does slightly more traditional stuff, right? So yes, he actually provides a great level of traditional dishes where we can capture other customers and then if people want something a little bit more adventurous, then they tend to go towards me. So the menu is, I would say 30% collaborative and the rest is sort of 50 50 between my dishes and my dad's dishes
Jaymee Sire:
And all of this obviously on display with the show. How did the idea for this show come about?
Kathy Fang:
That story is quite interesting actually. So I recently actually just met the person who sparked everything, right? He's the person who lit the match. He tells this producer that I wanna create a show called FANG related, I don't know what it's about, , but go figure out what that's gonna be about. Let's see if there's something here. And so, and he, when I met him, I was like, how did you even think of Fang related? Like, so he's like, I don't know, you know, sometimes you just throw spaghetti against a wall and see what sticks. And the first round came back and it was like, no, we can't do anything vampire related because that's, that's not gonna do well. Right? And so James, this, this guy ends up reaching out to me during the pandemic. I just had my son three months into it and he's like, do you wanna hop on a zoo? I'm like, sure. You know? I'm like, this is not gonna go anywhere wearing a hollow kiddo t-shirt. And I'm just like, yeah, sure, let's talk like, because you know, I've been actually pushing to do shows on Food Network ever since I opened Fang. And I think at the time it was just like, sometimes it's all about the concept and the idea and timing and everything, the timing and, yeah. And so I was at that point where I'm like, I'm two kids in. I'm like, sure, why? Now let's talk. I don't care. And he took that interview and put bits and pieces of it with online content that I had and put together a two minute sizzle and it ended up being like the right thing. He's like, your family story is like so interesting. Like, have you ever thought of doing a reality show? Tell me about your life, tell me about your relationship with your dad. And I feel like we never really focused on that. Prior to that. It was kind of like, I wanted to teach people how to cook Chinese food and all this stuff. And this was like the right recipe, right? , that was the right dish. And from that point on, it just kind of kept rolling and rolling and, and now here we are.
Jaymee Sire:
What does it mean to you to be able to, you know, film this in your hometown, in your family's restaurants and really showcase the city that you love and that it has supported your family's businesses for, you know, 30 plus years?
Kathy Fang:
Yeah, it's twofold. I think number one, it's obviously, it's incredible to be able to do this story and this show all in San Francisco because I think, you know, we were, I was born and raised here when my parents immigrated, this is Chinatown, San Francisco was the first place they stepped foot into. That was our first home. And essentially that's always been our home. Like even though we don't sleep there, we spend more time there, there anywhere else, . And so to be able to showcase like where it all started and where we've gotten to is sort of like that ultimate American dream. And it doesn't, even though it's like an allian like cast thing, it's about a Chinese family. It's really something that should, I hope would resonate with people of all backgrounds and all ethnicities. Like anybody, right? Anybody who where their parents or elders came here for a better life, found a place that they call home and can, you know, create something that has gotten to this point is like amazing to be able to share. The other point that I I'd like to say is that I think SF has been kind of like, we need it, the city's been kind of battered. There's been a lot of negative, I feel like press even prior to the pandemic. And it just got exacerbated during the pandemic people who are like leaving, moving out of the city. You know, there are a lot of things people are complaining about homelessness. And our city's been kind of last and coming back in terms of economy. The real estate has like plummeted. It's just, it's feeling very negative. Mm-hmm. and people are kind of forgetting like, this place is a beautiful place, it's a beautiful city. And it's made up with like so many different, like people that like, uh, we appreciate because we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for like the people who are living here, right? Mm-hmm. , the outpouring that we got during the pandemic when we were closed for over a year, people would just email and be like, are you guys gonna stay? Like, are you guys gonna reopen? What's happening? Are you guys gonna be closed forever? How can we support you guys if you're not open? People are like seeing if we can like buy your sweatshirts and things like that. And so like, you know, we really do appreciate and feel so grateful that we have this level of like, support from the people of San Francisco and this is kind of a way of paying that back, right? Mm-hmm. And being like, we appreciate that and hopefully this show can remind people, this is a beautiful city and every city goes through like, you know, rough times, but we'll be back. San Francisco's gone through a lot of like disasters and we always come back mm-hmm. . So hopefully people will come and tourists will come back and people who moved away should move back. come back and support all of our businesses. .
Jaymee Sire:
Well, what do you hope people take away from the show and just, you know, seeing your family's story?
Kathy Fang:
Gosh, I think one of the, the biggest thing that I want people to take away from is really the fact that House of Van King is like, uh, at the, the core of the show is, is all about family, right? Yeah. There's gonna be all these little drama and all that stuff, but I feel like we would, you know, wouldn't be here if it wasn't obviously the city, but also like how close-knit our family is. And it's not like a venture with other people. There's no capital from other people. Like the menu, everything from House of 19 to Fang is literally just like my dad, my mom and I. Like we are the chefs , right? Every recipe, every sauce, everything that you're tasting comes from us. There's no other chef that's like really like, fully involved in all of that. Yeah. It's not like a cookie cutter thing. And it's like, it came from very humble beginnings. And so I hope people understand that and they don't think it's like, oh, sometimes people will say, oh, it's change, right? Or something like, it's like, no, it's just us. And then obviously the level of like, like the relationship and dynamic that I have with my parents, now that I have kids, it's become even more important. Like I'd, I'd love for people to be like, oh wow. Like I, it's a family friendly show. I wanna give my parents a hug. Like, yeah, sometimes we forget, you know, the parents job is tough. It's not just raising us and taking care of us. They do so much to make sure like our lives are better. And sometimes we forget that. I just want people to feel good when they watch the show. Like it's not drama and food is sort of the backdrop. Everybody loves to see food, right? Yeah, of course I want you to come and eat at a restaurant, but more importantly I want you to like give your parents a hug. Like,
Jaymee Sire:
I love that.
Kathy Fang:
Appreciate them. It's hard being a parent. .
Jaymee Sire:
Yeah. No, I think that's, I think that's a great message. And yes, everybody go, if, if you have that luxury go hug. You know, your parents today or your kids or both. . Yes. Um, now this has been so great hearing your story and I hope everybody checks out the show. We're gonna finish things off with a little rapid fire round and then we have one final question for you before we let you go. All right. So rapid fire questions. What do you and your dad disagree about the most?
Kathy Fang:
Expansion. .
Jaymee Sire:
.
Kathy Fang:
Like, it's great we have Fang and House of Thinking, but I wanna take it to the next level cuz like I said, we have something very special here. Mm-hmm. , there's people from all over the world, just not the us all of the world who come and eat our food and tell us and send emails and be like, can I get a hoodie? Or like, this was literally the best Chinese food ever had come to like Wichita, Kansas,
Jaymee Sire:
Come to
Kathy Fang:
Like Italy, you know, all sorts of stuff. And my dad, you know, he's, he's, he loves like what he has and he's like, don't be too greedy
Jaymee Sire:
, you know,
Kathy Fang:
Let's just like focus on these two places. And I, he's 74, he's like, I don't, I don't like change at this point.
Jaymee Sire:
, I just
Kathy Fang:
Want the same thing every single day.
Jaymee Sire:
That's fair. I guess . Yeah,
Kathy Fang:
I know he has a point, but that's why it's hard. It's not that easy.
Jaymee Sire:
Favorite thing on the menu at Fang?
Kathy Fang:
Favorite thing on the menu at Fang is the fang's Crispy honey chili shortbread. Yeah. Because that is the only dish actually that has all three of us
Jaymee Sire:
In it. I
Kathy Fang:
Love that. Right? Like my mom, my dad and I, everything else doesn't have that same like family collaboration.
Jaymee Sire:
That's super special. Favorite SF restaurant that is not owned by your family. .
Kathy Fang:
Oh God, that's so hard. There's so many. I
Jaymee Sire:
Know.
Kathy Fang:
right now it's actually tied like, so I love Japanese food and sushi omics and it's the one thing that my husband and I can actually enjoy together. Okay. Because my husband is, does not believe it or not, like Chinese food.
Jaymee Sire:
plot twist. . Yeah,
Kathy Fang:
. It's his least favorite. And so it, and he's not into like, you know, fancy food and Michele, all this stuff. So it is one thing that we can go and explore together. And so right now it's, it's tied between ACOs and June. These are like the two places that is like the ultimate for us that we can do together.
Jaymee Sire:
Love that best Chopped memory.
Kathy Fang:
Best chopped memory is obviously learning that I won the Luna New Year competition because I'm trainees like, if I lose this, I like can't go home. Like my dad will probably defend me. . And also there was like this level of just, I, I got emotional on that particular show for one, I was cooking from the heart, I was, you know, inspired by stuff that I grew up with and put that into the dishes that I was creating. So it was like very validating to win that challenge. And also, you know, like I like to win that. The ultimate thing was to really get approval, right? Like to get my dad to be like, wow, you know, you really know your stuff because generally my dad won't say that to me like ever , that's just the Chinese way. If I do something and I knock it outta the park, he'll just be like, yeah, but don't forget where you learned that from
Jaymee Sire:
, you know,
Kathy Fang:
He's like, it's all from here. Like, so like my dad can't say, oh well you won that because of me. I was like, you were not at that competition . And so to get that level of, you know, sort of like, wow, my dad can really be proud of me. That really hit a nerve for me. And so from that moment they opened that collo and was like, you won. That was the best moment for me.
Jaymee Sire:
Love that dream vacation.
Kathy Fang:
The Maldives.
Jaymee Sire:
Oh, .
Kathy Fang:
Yeah. Hands down Maldives. . We went recently at, for our wedding honeymoon. Well basically our honeymoon cuz we never took one. And it, it's just, it's the most beautiful place that I've ever been. Mm-hmm. . And we live a very hectic life. There's always go so many things going on and it's the one place I feel like you can actually really take a breath and there's nothing to do there other than some sport activity. Like, I love going to cities, but a lot of times you need like a vacation from your vacation.
Jaymee Sire:
Sure. . Yeah.
Kathy Fang:
I'm like the type of person who's like, it's
Jaymee Sire:
Like go, go,
Kathy Fang:
Go. Let's see that there's like no breaks and let's eat here and let's eat there. And this is one place where you can actually just like really decompress, enjoy the natural beauty of like what we have on this planet and spend quality time together. And the food's great, the people are amazing. There's, there's just nothing bad about that place.
Jaymee Sire:
All right, well it's on the list for sure. And then lastly, before we get to our final question, what keeps you inspired?
Kathy Fang:
What keeps me inspired is really the customers, honestly. Right? Like I am very involved like both back of the house and front of the house almost. I would say now more involved front of the house. I interact with all the customers. I like to see their reaction when it comes to eating our food. Like I'm trying this thing like, you know when someone closes their eyes, right? Mm-hmm. and there's that head nod or that finger point to the dish, that's when, you know, I can't, I may not hear what they're saying, but I know they just ate something that's amazing. And that is what I like die for, right? I'm just like, that is the best feeling ever is to see people be unexpectedly surprised by how good something that looks pretty simple, right? Like mm-hmm , that's the best. And when people come and say, oh my god, that was like amazing. Thank you so much. And they come back and they bring friends. That is what makes us happy because you know, that's why our place is there. Our place is there to make people happy. Food makes people happy.
Jaymee Sire:
Yeah. The ultimate compliment, right? ? Yes. All right. Well I guess that leads right into our last question, which is what we ask everybody at the end of these interviews. I mean everybody has a different answer, but it is what would be on the menu for your ideal perfect food day? So breakfast, lunch, dinner, dessert. There's no rules, calories don't count. You can travel time, travel. Um, these meals can be in the same place, different places, whatever you want. We just wanna hear what your ideal, you know, things are, you're eating for those meals.
Kathy Fang:
Yeah, so for breakfast I would go to Hong Kong and have a bowl of conk. Hmm. With fish filet and preserved egg and a Chinese donut. It's like a Chinese crueler that you had? Mm-hmm Ultimate, ultimate come meal. I like grew up going to Hong Kong as a kid and that was like the one thing that I would like wake up early in the morning and crave. And for lunch I would do tag guilini with white truffle pasta. Oh like a white truffle pasta with Tyler leaning. And then for dinner it would be Oe Ghost ju kind of both their food together. Oh,
Jaymee Sire:
I like that. All of it. the best of both worlds. ,
Kathy Fang:
Best of both worlds. And then for dessert, this is going sound kind of like probably distinct. I'm not actually the biggest like dessert person. I grew up eating, you know, mung beans and red beans for dessert. Mm-hmm. . But there is one thing that like always gives me a ton of comfort and we eat it only like during New Year's generally. And it's this thing called ngk, it's a rice ball. Okay. It's a rice ball with black sesame. Sometimes there's peanuts in it and you serve it in this hot soup. And we use fermented rice that we put into this soup and we poach an egg in. It sounds kinda
Jaymee Sire:
Weird. . You're like, it sounds delicious. It just doesn't sound like dessert. .
Kathy Fang:
Yeah. It's so weird. But it's like what I grew up eating. Yeah. And it was always with like family and you eat it once, I don't know why. Only once, cuz if it's so good you should eat it all the time. . But they also put this thing called a Samantha syrup. It's a flower that's super fragrant, kind of like jasmine, but it has this sort of like honey f like taste to it. You add it to the broth, it's so comforting. It's like a little bit of the rice ball and then you've got the poached egg with the ready yo , I'll Samantha this flower, you know?
Jaymee Sire:
That sounds amazing.
Kathy Fang:
Um, comfort meal.
Jaymee Sire:
Yeah. And it sounds like it's a, you know, it's special. You only get it, you know, once a year, so it's, it's more meaningful I guess. Yeah.
Kathy Fang:
I feel like as you get older food that like you get most appreciation for and really crave a lot of times becomes things that you associate like your childhood with. Mm-hmm , it's like really interesting. I used to when I was younger, like the fancier, the better like the more odd the better. And now it's like kind of coming back to the basics.
Jaymee Sire:
Yeah. Well this has been such a delight chatting with you. And again, everybody go watch the show and best of luck with all of your endeavors and, and potential expansions with your father .
Kathy Fang:
Yes. We gotta find the right expansion that, that he's gonna be on board with
Jaymee Sire:
Kathy Fang:
Cause it's gotta happen.
Jaymee Sire:
Yeah. No, thank you so much.
Kathy Fang:
Thank you, Jaymee. This is such a pleasure.
Jaymee Sire:
You can watch new episodes of Chef Dynasty House of Fang Tuesdays at nine eight Central on Food Network and streaming on Discovery. Plus, make sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss a thing. And if you enjoy today's episode, please rate and review. We love it when you do that. That's all for now. We'll catch you foodies next Friday.