Food Network Obsessed

Rocco DiSpirito on Shy Chef Secrets & Why Cookbooks Are Still Special

Episode Summary

Chef Rocco DiSpirito reminisces on his time as an executive chef in the early nineties and how reviews and critics could make or break an establishment.

Episode Notes

Chef Rocco DiSpirito reminisces on his time as an executive chef in the early nineties and how reviews and critics could make or break an establishment. Rocco talks about how social media has leveled the restaurant review playing field and how the New York City food landscape has evolved over the past few decades. He talks about his early food memories and the honest, hardworking upbringing with his family that led to his first job selling Italian ice. Rocco shares how the role of a chef has evolved and why he hired a coach to guide him through interactions with customers in his restaurants. He talks about starting therapy in elementary school and why everyone needs a trained therapist in their life. Rocco reveals why he loves creating cookbooks so much after authoring fourteen and why, even with the internet and social media, cookbooks remain special. He talks about his friendship with Guy Fieri, how they met, and why he loves filming together on Guy’s shows. Rocco talks about how intense the blind judging is on Tournament of Champions and how he has to wait to find out who cooked the dishes he loved. 

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Find episode transcripts here: https://food-network-obsessed.simplecast.com/episodes/rocco-dispirito-on-shy-chef-secrets-why-cookbooks-are-still-special

Episode Transcription

Jaymee Sire:

Hello, hello and welcome to Food Network Obsessed. This is the podcast where we dish on all things food with your favorite chefs, food influencers, and food network stars. I'm your host Jaymee Sire, and today we have a celebrity chef on the podcast to talk about surviving as an introvert in the industry and why everyone should go to therapy. He is a cookbook author, restaurateur, and a food network favorite judge. It's Rocco DiSpirito. Rocco it’s so good to have you on the podcast. I feel like there was a period of time where I was constantly seeing you at various dinners and events, but what have you been up to lately? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

It's nice to be here as well. I've watched from afar for, you know, I guess two years now. How long have you been doing this?

Jaymee Sire:

Yeah, I'm just about two years. Just over two years.

Rocco DiSpirito:

Watched all my friends do it secretly, you know, jealous of, um, so I'm happy to be here today. I think you do a wonderful job. So what's what's up lately? Yeah, I'm, you know, working on the same things I've always worked on. Just, you know, my life is sort of consumed by work. I'm always working on something like a book or TV show or restaurant, and it's just like various levels of each at any given time. Sometimes they're all up at 10, sometimes, you know, they're all down at, you know, 1, 2, 3. Right now, I would say the book is up at nine and a half, cuz we have a, a pretty hard deadline of October of 2023. So that's gonna consume a lot of my time. And I'm doing a lot of shows for Food Network, as you probably know, we just finished Tournament of Champions, Darnell Ferguson's new show.

Jaymee Sire:

Oh, nice. 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Yeah, triple G. So excited about that. And I am, you know, sort of quietly working on some restaurant menus for friends and, you know, it sort of sums it up. Yeah.

Jaymee Sire:

Yeah. I mean, busy guy for sure. And I definitely wanna dive into to more of the upcoming Food Network programming in a little bit. Sure. Mm-hmm. . But let's take it back a little bit because you have had such an interesting winding path in the industry since opening Union Pacific back in 19. Yeah, yeah. 97 mm-hmm. and being named Food and Wine's Best New Chef two years after that. When you think back to that time, you know, in the late nineties trying to thrive as an executive chef, what do you remember the most? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

So many things. I remember so many things. It was very exciting time, especially in the big cities where food used, you know, the, the sort of the mecca for fine dinings existed, you know, in la, New York, California, Boston. So I was in New York, of course. And what was nice about that time is it was very easy to understand the path, because the path was work and work in restaurants. There were no other opportunities. Mm-hmm. TV came later, you know, books were out there for sure, but not like they are now. There were no podcasts. There were no, there was really no consulting. You know, it was sort of very straightforward. The journey was very straightforward. You, you worked for people that you, you respected, admired, loved. If you, if you couldn't get a job with them, you, you went to your next favorite and your third favorite and your fourth favorite, and you worked your way up. You know, and it's funny cuz when you mentioned 1997, first thing I wanna say is, do you, do you know, I worked, you know, almost 15 years before that in the business, you know, working my way, way up through, you know, from restaurants that served a hundred kinds of burgers to four star restaurants in New York City and in Paris. And, you know, back then, that's, that's what it took. So the path was very clear back then, you know, you just worked hard. You, you got really good at what you were doing. You mastered your station, you moved on to another station, you became a sous chef, you became a chef to cuisine, you became a chef. If you were lucky, you got to open a restaurant like Union Pacific, and you did your best to run it for 10 years at a very high level. And that, at that time brought a lot of other things with it. And I feel like now it's much, it's very confusing now to know what path to take, you know, as an executive chef or a working chef. We're not a working chef, we're a media chef. You know, there's so many different kinds of chefs. So that's what I remember about that time being like very, very single, single focus. Mm-hmm. on, you know, the craft cooking service that night and how that brought all the joy and, you know, the, the, the, the pitfalls. The not so great moments and, but all the great moments as well. 

Jaymee Sire:

Speaking of great moments, don't talk about Jaymee. Understand. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think everybody 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Could, you're in grade school in 1997, but you probably heard from some people 

Jaymee Sire:

I was in high school, but thank you. I appreciate the compliments.

Rocco Dispirito:

No, it's good to be young, Jaymee. Trust me. Yeah.

Jaymee Sire:

No, I mean, and you did have, you know, some success and accolades and glowing reviews. How, how much did like critics and reviews kind of affect you at that stage in your career when you were trying to find your culinary voice? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

That's a good question. You know, I think critics, uh, whether they be, you know, from the big magazines or the New York Times or the Michelin Guide or Yelp still affect me mm-hmm. . And I'm gonna just go out there and say everyone in my business a lot. Yeah. We sort of, you know, we in a sort of smaller, but try to create experiences that bring the critics in and, and make them feel really good about writing positive things. We also understand now that social media, obviously is its own form of very important critique. And, you know, winning on social media is probably the most important form of criticism that we have to, to learn how to navigate and, and, and live with. But yeah, you know, it was very important for us to meet and learn who the critics were. And for someone like me who, whose parents weren't really exposed to that at all, I had to learn everything from scratch and understand what, you know, the role big media played in life in general, not just the chef's life and l you know, meet the critics and meet the, the, the heavies in the food industry and, you know, do the events that got, you know, got you sort of rubbing elbows with them. And so, you know, it was a long sort of slow grind before you get to the place where you're doing James Beard dinners. And, you know, back then that was what, what everybody strove to do was the James Beard dinner. That was like mm-hmm. sort of the big moment for you. So it was super important as I, and I think it's super important today. It's just, just a little different. I think you can, you can chart your own path with social media now, which is wonderful, by the way. 

Jaymee Sire:

Yeah. I mean, I, I'm curious your thoughts o on social media a little bit more because Yeah, you know, it, it is a double-edged sword, you know, it can, it can make a restaurant, but it can really, you know, ruin one as well. If you get one bad review from somebody with, you know, hundreds of thousands of followers. What is your take on all of that? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Oh, man. Social media is the, you know, it's the kid on the team that always got picked last. It's the, you know, it's the thing that you, you know, you have to sort of begrudgingly live with and you're not happy about it, but, you know, at some point you accept it and you learn how to use it. And this is, at least for me, I know for people who were, you know, 10, 20, 30 years younger, it, this is not the case at all. So for me personally, you know, we, I resisted the temptation for a long time, and even though some people would consider me an early adopter, I'm not an early adopter compared to an average 22 year old, you know, who is ? Who was like born 

Jaymee Sire:

Four, 12 year old 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Yeah. Average 12 year old. Yeah. I think social media has tremendous power to uplift. I don't think it has quite the same power to destroy, it's not as destructive as a very bad review. You know, if you got panned in the New York Times and got no stars, that was, you know, that could close your doors in, you know, overnight, that could close your doors. Mm-hmm. , I don't think that that's true for social media. And I think because there's, you know, thousands of people on social media, the law of averages starts to kick in a little bit and you get sure, you know, the next good review brings your average back up. And because people only remember the thing they saw 30 seconds ago, , I think you can use social media to your advantage. And if you're AUR or chef or just, you know, a social media chef for, you know, I think that exists now, right? A social media chef mm-hmm. , if you're doing that, if, if that's your path, you, you wanna definitely master this area and use it as your primary source of marketing. It's a very important source of marketing. I think all of us would love not to have to do it and not have to worry about it. And I try not to post things that are, you know, not connected to some important project or TV show or, or, you know, things that are, you know, I don't, I'm interested in posting, you know, that I went to pick up my mail and, you know, that kinda thing. But, you know, it, it's definitely important. I think it's, it's, it's a little more forgiving than the criticism we had to face 20, 30 years ago. But it's definitely important. 

Jaymee Sire:

Uh, as someone is who grew up in, in Queens and now resides down in Tribeca, how have you witnessed just the restaurant industry evolve in this very special city specifically? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Yeah, so this is indeed a very special city for food. Not only because of the numbers, right? We have millions and millions of people in and outta the city. Two, three, 4 million people using a subway every day. 8, 9, 20 people in the larger New York City area. I mean, just think about those numbers of so many people out there to represent different types of food, different ethnic origins of food, different abilities and taste levels, micro markets, you know, in Queens that are near my kitchen that, you know, after being there for 10 years, I hadn't seen until recently mm-hmm. , you know, there's so much, the vastness of it makes it really special. And then of course, the customer makes it really special. So I, I've seen it remain the same and change. I've seen it grow. I've seen it shrink through pandemics and, you know, financial collapses and mm-hmm. And other, other things that shrink markets, other events that shrink markets. But it remains the same in that it's, it's sort of its own organism that is almost impossible to stop or shut down or it's just, it just keeps moving forward. And whether it's, you know, half a million people less, or half a million people more really doesn't matter. There's a life force in the city that just doesn't stop, you know? Mm-hmm. . And that's what I think I love about it. And, and what people love about it would come to live here. They're looking to, you know, tap in channel that life force and mm-hmm. , it gives you strength, it gives you wings, it gives you, you know, it's the higher ground, you know, it, it gi it gives you a tremendous perspective and an opportunity to learn and collect, you know, experiences in a way that you couldn't do in other places. And none of that's changed, although, you know, obviously everything's changed. , uh, at the same time, , the life force has not changed, but the expression of it in terms of, you know, brick and mortar restaurants has changed. Of course. I think they're much less restaurants out there now. Even though if you look at the stats, it's basically the same. I know when I walk around the neighborhood and when I walk around the streets of New York City, I see many more closed stores than I used to see. 

Jaymee Sire:

So, yeah. 

Rocco DiSpirito:

I'm sure we'll get some accurate numbers soon. 

Jaymee Sire:

. No, but the, you're right, the energy is something you really can't replicate anywhere else. And and you're obviously very passionate about the city and, and really nurturing the food industry here. Can you share a little bit about your involvement with the Downtown Alliance and the dine around downtown initiatives? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Absolutely. Happy to. It's a real pleasure working with them because they are, you know, sort of the intrepid New Yorkers that you, you'd expect to find who running a a, an organization called the Downtown Alliance. They're really funny. They, they've been in the food and in marketing business in New York for a while, and it's a pi, private public partnership of, you know, business owners and the city of New York. And the goal is to, you know, improve the life and the quality of life and experiences for PE residents of downtown that's below Chamber Street and to the river. And they do it in a number of ways that dine around at home is one, one example of, you know, hundreds of initiatives that they organize and fund and run execute. And so what we did was, during the pandemic, instead of having our dine around downtown, which is a huge event in Wall Street, in the Wall Street area for 10,000 people, we couldn't do that. Of course, we, we did a series called Dying Around Downtown at Home. And, you know, through the miracle of Zoom, we were able to bring that into the people's homes who would normally be our guests at this event. And we've got, you know, we've gotten to work with all the same chefs who usually join us, you know, some wonderful chefs like Tom Clicko and, uh, other chefs of his caliber, and also a, a lot of local chefs who wouldn't normally have a stage like that we're able to participate, which is wonderful. Some small business owners, some very new people. You know, there's one kid who owns a business called China, c h i n a h, who's I think 24 years old. Wow. Who really unusual, right. For a four year old to be out there marketing like that. So it's been a wonderful way to combat the pandemic, of course, bring dining experiences to New Yorkers who might have missed the big event and to do it in a way that was accessible to everybody. It's free. Our next one is in March, and I can't remember which chef we partner with, but it's in, it's coming up in March. And it's, it's wonderful. They donate any proceeds to their charity of choice, and of course they usually offer some discount or, you know, something of value. And then there's a posterior plate competition where you get to, you know, win a, a cooking class with the chef. So it's a nice, really nice, you know, result of changing times in a pandemic. Mm-hmm. make, you know, creating, creating difficult times, but a really nice way to make it a positive. 

Jaymee Sire:

Absolutely. I think, I think one of the things the pandemic did bring to us is, is the ability to, to connect more, you know, whether it's over, you know, zoom or video conferencing and that kind of thing. Like so many, I participated in so many like, corporate events that were cooking demos that, you know. Right. 

Rocco DiSpirito:

How about those?

Jaymee Sire:

Those? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, people wouldn't have been able to join like otherwise, or even if it, it was, you know, normal times. So I think that part has been really cool, just like the way that we've kind of evolved the, you know, those types of events and that kind of thing. For sure. 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Yeah. The Zoom workaround, it's been really cool. I have to say, I don't know if you agree with me, Jaymee, but some of those events are more fun than the in-person events. I really like be being able to see people cook at home Yeah. In their home kitchens. I love that their kids are, you know, in the background helping or not helping in whatever the case may be. I love that people are not worried about, you know, parking and babysitters and they're drinking and they're a little more free and, and you know, I get to check in. Cause most of the time we, when we do those events, we send the ingredients and we cook with people mm-hmm. , you know, live at, you know, simultaneously. So you get to see the finished product, which is really cool. I, I don't know how you feel about it, but Yeah, 

Jaymee Sire:

I, I feel the same way because I think, like, like you were saying, like those in-person events, I mean, it's great that people get to, you know, meet the chefs in person and all that, but they're not actually cooking. So like how many of them are gonna go home and actually try to recreate that in their own kitchens. Whereas, you know, the, these, you know, zoom events, they are literally doing exactly that and they can ask you questions in real time. So I think that part has been, you know, a really fun thing to, to be involved in. I'm usually just moderating them, but, but it's, oh, it's cool. I'd 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Love to do with you. I think that's so fun. The cool thing is that I get to send you the ingredients that I want you to cook with. So normally when we're doing these things, we're always, we're doing this, like this song and dance about ingredients and where to find the ingredient that I'm talking about. And, you know, usually it's pretty specific and, you know, annoying. And the, the person who's, who's using the recipe, consuming the kit is normally rolling their eyes thinking, I'll never do this. I'll never go find that ingredient. I don't care that much. , you know, leave me alone already. I, you know, I'm not really interested in, you know, whatever vinegar you're talking about that comes from some obscure country . But in this case, you know, we'll send it to you so we'll, I'll find it and we'll send it to you. So you get to, you know, work with the ingredients that I want you to work with the ingredients that are in my recipe and get the result that we're looking for. Which is really cool. And I've seen people react to that. I've seen people say, oh wow, this is, you know, I made risotto a hundred times. It's never come out like this. I'm like, yeah, it's cause it's, you're using real AEO rice and real fun on Reggiano and it makes all the difference. Yeah. And that's really cool. I like that a lot. 

Jaymee Sire:

Yeah, I do too. I'm curious, like, how, how did your love for Food Star, because you kind of alluded to it, you know, like a lot of your bios and, and articles written about you, they all kind of start in 1997, you know what, so yeah. What was before that in terms of like growing up, what, what sparked your interest in, you know, going to culinary school? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Sure. So growing up I would walk out of my house to my backyard and would see any number of visuals. Sometimes a visual would be my mom cleaning pigeons. I won't go into it any further. Okay. . But let's just say she was 

Jaymee Sire:

Processing, like, is this local pigeons? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Yeah, . These are pigeons that my grandmother raised in our backyard. I mean, it's wild stuff, right? And if it wasn't pigeons, it was rabbits or chickens. One thing I saw almost every day was my grandmother mother going out to collect fresh eggs. Cuz we had a huge chicken coop. Or it was collecting produce off of trees, you know, pears, apples, cherries, you know, tending to drying salami in the garage. That was, you know, developing a white mold around it cuz it was aging or, you know, braiding strings of garlic. You know, I lived in a super immersive food experience that, you know, like eat, drink, man, woman, I don't know if you've seen the opening scene of eat, drink, man, woman, but it's, the guy is surrounded by food and he's cooking 800 dishes. That's sort of what my life looked like as a kid. So I didn't, I, you know, the food world was my life and everywhere I looked at any direction there was something related to food. And I think that's very typical of an Italian American upbringing, certainly of an Italian farmer upbringing. So, uh, I was interested in food from day one, you know, even though it was repulsive, I wanted to know why my mom was cleaning pigeons and what was gonna happen with them and how we were gonna eat them. And obviously I would never do that today, but , you know, and, you know, I make fun of it a little bit, but in a way it was much more sustainable and honest and transparent than what we do today with commercial factory farms and raising your own food for your, your livestock for food is about as honest as it gets in, you know, food preparation, consumption. So they had, I think they had the right idea. It just, just looked grizzly, you know, . It was very, very, very bad visual. And, you know, I had neighbors that were from, you know, grumpy queens. You had neighbors that were from everywhere, like thousands of different ethnicities and Yep. They had their, some neighbors had sheep in there. I mean, there was all kinds of really shenanigans going on. Yeah. . Yeah. Wild stuff. Wild stuff. And then my, then my mom, my grandmother and I moved to Long Island where we had even more land. Mm-hmm. raised more things. And so I've always been sort of doing this. And of course my grandmother made her own wine and my mom helped, you know, with the yearly tomato canning. And we made bread every day and Wow. You know, but it was homemade. So I was, you know, so surrounded by food and all of the examples of, you know, love and, and the hard work of it. And, you know, we had to live a season of life. We had to track ingredients through the seasons back then we would buy things in the season and store them like tomatoes is just one example. But if you think about that example, that Labor Day tradition of canning tomatoes is a perfect example of living seasonally. Mm-hmm. You know, living and, and living and eating through the Four Seasons food that's, you know, available and ready to eat and cheap and plentiful. And when you got that sort of food, you didn't throw out the, the abundance. You, you canned it and saved it for the winter. And that's the way, you know, people lived only a hundred years ago. So it was so, it was pretty ingrained. And to answer your question, that's obviously where it first became interested. And then I, I just wanted to make some money and I got a job in the first place that would hire me. And it was a, it was a restaurant and I, I fell in love with everything about it, you know, I got to talk to people. I had fun laugh, eat Italian ice, make pizza . It was pretty cool, Jaymee. It was, it was really cool. Sounds like a, I eat all the blue Italian ice I wanted. Yeah.

Jaymee Sire:

There you go. No, sounds like a dream. But, you know, on the flip side, you, you describe yourself as a shy person, an introvert. So how, you know, you talk about talking to people and that kind of thing. Yeah. How did becoming a chef align with or not align with these parts of your personality and what has kind of pushed you out of your comfort zone over the years? Well, 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Here, the, here's the thing. Jaymee, being a chef used to be the job for a shy introvert. This 

Jaymee Sire:

Is true, this is true. When 

Rocco DiSpirito:

I started you were in the back room, you know, stuck behind lots of equipment. No one ever spoke to you or, or cared to speak to you. And it all changed in front of me, you know, and I was just as shocked as everybody by that. And I took a lot of adjustments. I, you know, I went from, and I still am basically a shy introvert and I still, you know, would rather, you know, stay in the back room and cook and, and peel potatoes than be out there marketing and championing my brand and my, whatever I'm working on. I know that may be a little hard to believe, but it's true. And I, I had to work very hard on being able to turn on the extrovert. When I worked in restaurants. I used to coach, believe it or not, you can ask Kat Co about it cuz we use the same coach. I used the coach, I did a lot of therapy. I learned about how being external versus internal is really about generosity. It's really what the hospitality business is all about. You know, if being in the dining room and talking to customers and, and making sure they know who you are and what you did to their food and how you cooked, everything is of value to them. It's something you must provide, you know, and I learned to love it for sure, but it didn't come natural to me. Whereas my mom, and, you know, I can name five chefs that come to mind immediately, it comes natural to them a hundred percent. And you can see the difference, you know, even on TV now, you know, competing requires tremendous, huge external personality that, that I don't have, you know, so it's always something I need to work on to think about. But, you know, it ultimately, it's super fun. It's, it's definitely a very important part of what we do. It became important in the, in the eighties and nineties and early two thousands, I would say by the end of the nineties, it was extremely important to the success of any business that there was a chef that they could meet and talk to and know their name and meet occasionally and, and learn about the ingredient. You know, that became a very important part of the dining experience. And, you know, now we, we totally take that for granted and think it's absolutely normal, but it wasn't at one point. And so definitely took some work. 

Jaymee Sire:

You mentioned a coach. Was this, I mean, was this like a public speaking coach, an acting coach? Like what, what? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Yeah, she, she was, her name was Nancy Banks. She was a like part therapist, part acting coach, part public speaking coach. And she would do these mock visits with us and these mock TV appearances and she'd have someone play Al Roker and someone play Katie Corick . And we'd set up this, these today's show segments in the private dining room of, of my restaurant did a lot of these with KA chorus because we had a show called Melting Pot at the time. And, you know, sh Kat was the same, you know, had the same sort of feeling as I, you know, she wasn't naturally an extrovert. And both of us needed this training. And I'm sorry Kat to be talking about you like this. Uh, but she and I have talked about it many, many times and she's cool. And I know she's, she's cool talking about it. But it was super fun. And Nancy, Nancy Banks, who was an angel, absolutely helped us come out of our shell. And, you know, but it was, it wasn't just the practice or the, the run throughs that helped, you know, like the, she would create these dress rehearsal scenarios, but really was, it was the work on ourselves that ultimately made it super natural. And what I mean by that is she, when she explained to us and taught us that being in the restaurant business is all about generosity and hospitality and being generous sometimes means you, you're, you have to get out of your comfort zone and go talk to people. Hmm. Instead of, you know, getting back to your pet food project the moment, you know, and for many chefs that there is a long list, right? Whether we're playing with our new Sovi machine or , you know, a new knife or a new spoon or whatever it is, we love to be back there fiddling away. Cuz really we're mad scientists . Right? I mean, most of us just wanna be back there, you know, cooking something, boiling something, drying something, reducing something. That's sort of where we, we love to live. Um, but the real gift is, is being able to make your customers feel loved, feel appreciated, give them the education they're looking for. That's, that's really where the hosp, the, the, the, the crux or the sweet spot of the hospitality industry is. And that used to be another person that used to be another job. Mm-hmm. , there was always a maitre d who had the big personality, who was out there doing that hard work, shaking the hands. And then, you know, in the eighties, nineties and two thousands, that person was joined by the chef. Mm-hmm. or you know, the chef added to that. And, and I would say now it's absolutely expected. Right? Yeah. You 

Jaymee Sire:

Agree? Yeah. Yeah. For sure. You mentioned therapy as well, and I know you've been very open, generous about sharing your experiences with therapy. Mm-hmm. , you've been going since like second grade or something like that. Yeah. How has this constant in your life kind of shaped who you are personally and professionally? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Well, I, I, I give credit to the professionals in, you know, the social work world, the psychotherapy world, the psychiatry world all the time. I think they are, you know, absolute angels do some of the most important work unfortunately, that most of us never benefit from. I think it's still a very hard ask to, to be in therapy regularly. And, no, I'm just gonna say that most people would probably benefit from some sort of life coach coaching, some sort, some sort of therapeutic environment. Just a safe space where you can talk about things that you wouldn't talk about with your, you know, your partner, your, your parents, your best friends. Cuz you know, let's face it, everyone has an agenda, right? And it's not their fault. And, and it's not an incorrect dynamic. You know, a therapist is trained and, and paid. They're paid professional usually. And although a lot of them are very generous of the time, but, but it's basically a paid position in your life. And, and that person is paid to listen and give you agenda, free judgment, free feedback and or advice, advice in some cases, direction. And there's just not, there's just no one else like that in your life. If you, if you found someone like that in your life who isn't a therapist, you know, you're a very, very lucky person. And I know people who've found people like that, that people who can just be, you know, non-judgmental, you know, feedback, you know, sources and help them figure out difficult times. But most of us don't have that, you know, ability. And I, I, you know, it's interesting now there's a lot of talk about it. There are a lot of ads for, you know, online therapy. I think any of it and all of it is great. A anything you do to, you know, get feedback, work on yourself, learn about what motivates you, what drives you, you know, what, what impulses, you know, force you to make the same mistakes over and over. Mm-hmm. what patterns you've repeated in your life. It's all super important stuff. And I think ultimately in any career is gonna be game changing. Any, any career, any, any business is gonna be game changing and help you be a better version of whatever it is you're trying to be. 

Jaymee Sire:

When we come back, Rocco talks about why he loves writing cookbooks and what it's like to judge on Tournament of Champions. You know, I, I know you decided to step away from the restaurant life in the early two thousands to, you know, pursue other industry related opportunities, interests, cookbooks, television shows, as we're gonna get into in a little bit. Did these other pursuits provide a relief from that daily grind of, of being in a restaurant and being front facing like every single day? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Interestingly, not really , because Yeah, I think.

Jaymee Sire:

It’s the different kind of grind.

Rocco DiSpirito:

Couple things. Yeah. It's a, it's definitely a grind. I never really got away from the restaurant business. I was always, you know, jumping back in for a project here and there. Many of them I didn't publicize, some I did. So I was always either doing, you know, research development for menus or creating recipes. And, and every few years I found myself, you know, back into an opening or a, a, you know, a big consulting project that was several years long. But the grind in our world, maybe for, maybe it's just for people like me, I'm not sure what the average, you know, 30 year old would say now in our business, you know, the person who's maybe more a social media chef, less, less a restaurant chef, I don't know. I'd love to hear their, their take on it. But there's something about this business that all, it all ends up being a grind .

Jaymee Sire:

For some reason. 

Rocco DiSpirito:

You know, it's, it's a seven day a week job, no matter what part of the industry you're in. Uh, you know, I've done 14 cookbooks now, and they, you know, as much as the publishing business observes banker's hours, let's call them, for lack of a better term, if you're writing cookbooks every year or every other year, you're working, you know, seven days a week, 360, it's a grind. You know, if you're doing marketing for a brand, it's a grind. There's a lot of weekends, a lot of holidays, you know, it never seems to be nine to five, Monday to Friday with the long weekends, you know, guaranteed. And I'm, and I think that's just because the nature of our businesses, you know, it's, it, it's open on holidays, it's open on the long weekends, it's open at night. And so somehow that, that, you know, filters down into everything else we do. How do you feel about it? Do you feel like it, do you feel like that you are a restaurant person too, right? Originally. 

Jaymee Sire:

I mean, I, I've worked in, in restaurants like way back in the day. 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Right? But so you know that, you know what the life is like and what it feels like, right? Yeah. 

Jaymee Sire:

Yeah. But I also, you know, also even being in, I think, you know, sports television especially, like all the, oh yeah. All the games are like late at, you know, at night and Christmas day. Yeah. Like always working holidays. Yeah. I always had friends that would be like, oh my gosh, you're so lucky you get to go to all the baseball games for free. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, well what do you do at baseball games? , you're drinking, you're not like really paying attention. Yeah. I'm keeping score up in the press box, like figuring out what, you know, what I'm gonna do. So I think I've always just worked, you know, odd hours and yeah, if you need to get it done and it's happened to be a Sunday, then that's, that's when you're getting it done. But I think it, it works for me. Sounds like it works for you. I don't, I don't know that that works for everybody. It def and I, I think it takes a different, you know, kind of mindset to, to be okay with that and, and just, you know, kind of figure out when you can take your time for yourself, which sometimes that's harder to do, . 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Yeah. I mean, we're, we're in, we're in entertainment basically, right? Restaurants are a form of entertainment. You know, if you're in any, any business that is not, I don't know, banking or, you know, or research or, you know, something that is absolutely for sure closed at 5:00 PM and weekends off, you're always gonna be on call. So it's an on-call lifestyle, , I guess. Good way. Right? It's, you're ready to go at any time. And I think that, that, you know, is, is a fundamental difference. And, and it makes every day feel like a grind. But what's good about that is, you know, when the time comes to, you know, push, you can push at any time of day, night, weekend or not. If you need to push hard to get a project done, you can get it done cuz you just, that's the training. 

Jaymee Sire:

So, yeah. Yeah. Wait, 14 cookbooks. That is crazy. What, I mean, do you have a favorite? What, what do you like so much about, you know, the process of writing a cookbook? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

So, yeah, it's a really interesting thing. My, my dad, uh, was an Italian immigrant who gave up a dream of being a lawyer to come to America. And his goal was to publish a book one day in his life. And so I think he always wanted to write, let me just say publish a book or not. He wanted to write, and there were some people in his family younger than him who were able to get, you know, masters and PhDs and Elise wrote their dissertation. And in Italy in the, you know, thirties, forties, fifties, writing something was pretty much the highest level of being, right? That was as, as as high an accomplishment as you can, you could do. And I guess he talked about so much in front of me that I always held, you know, writing in such a high esteem. And it was always sort of secretly in there. And I didn't, it wasn't activated until, I don't know, year four or five at Union Pacific, when publishers would come in. I had publishers as clients, regular clients. I didn't even realize that. I didn't even know there was a, there was a publisher who I thought was a doctor for some reason, who came in three, four days a week for lunch, who was a good friend to this day. And was one of the important influences in my writing career. And said, you know, you should write a book and tell, you know, explained what it is you do here. What you do is so unusual and so it's so unique and you have such a strong, unique voice. And I thought, who is he talking to? He can't be talking to me about, you know, I'm, I'm a barely literate guy who, you know, went to cooking school. I mean, I went to traditional college as well, but you know, when you work in the restaurant world as a chef, you're not really writing a lot, I guess until you start writing a lot. And he finally convinced me that I did have a, you know, a unique voice in cooking and then I should figure out what it was. And that led to, you know, years of him telling me that led to the first book flavor, which is sort of like this semi philosophical look at, you know, food and cooking and how to weave flavor, you know, into dishes and how to express your point of view once you've, once you've achieved craftsman version, you can use your point of view to blend craft and art to, to speak your voice, you know, to, to, to, to express yourself through your art, through your food. And I didn't really realize all that was happening. And so I sort of took some time to learn what my voice was, learn, learn what I did uniquely with cooking, and explain it in a book. And I loved the process. It was a, you know, pretty long arduous process. It's several years of writing recipes, testing, fixing, editing, re you know, r and d and then photography is a huge part of it. And that's also usually a year of work. And then, you know, there's a lot of work promoting it. There's a ton of work promoting it. And turns out I loved all that . I was really a natural. And I think the, the support of my first editor Will Schwabe made it very, um, made it feel a lot more natural than it would have if, if he wasn't there. And he's a great e editor publisher today at Flatiron Books, and I think he's just about to publish JJ Johnson's new book, rice. Mm-hmm. He remains a, a, a major force in, in the cookbook world to this day. But I think it was, you know, his help and, and then me secretly loving the fact that I was able to accomplish something my dad had a, you know, sort of put aside to, for him to be able to come to the United States and support his family and, and go through that, you know, very tough immigrant experience. And I think, you know, being able to do that with my, while my parents were still alive and them being able to see all this happen was really interesting. But I, I liked, at the end of the day, the thing I like about it the most is that it's really the only way you can share your love of food and recipes with, with other people. Um, you don't really share cooking with other people in restaurants. You share the experience of cooking food for them. But if you want people to enjoy your cooking, the way you do your recipes the way you do, you gotta write books at some point and share those recipes. Or you gotta publish them online or social. Remember this is pre-social, right? So this is the only way, this is pre, pre-internet. Mm-hmm. . So this is the only way to get your recipes out was to publish them in a book. Right. Yeah. I I sometimes forget that. Pre-internet wild stuff, right? 

Jaymee Sire:

? No, it's, it's 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Jaymee, you know, someone who's pre-internet 

Jaymee Sire:

. I am technically pre-internet. Yeah. But no, it is interesting that you say that, you know, cuz I, I I share a lot of recipes on, on Instagram as well, but there is something about, you know, holding a book and you, you get the stains on it because you have it in the kitchen with you while you're, you're making these dishes and you have your favorites that the kind of become like the natural place where the, the book opens. So I, I do think that there's something special and, and magical still about having a physical cookbook, even though I know that there's online cookbooks and there's ways to get it without buying one. But I think, I think that's always gonna be something that, that I, I think is really special. People 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Enjoy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think proven once again, during the pandemic cookbooks did the best they've ever done mm-hmm. Through the pandemic. And still now cookbooks sales have jumped and are still at a pretty high level and are one of the categories of books that did really well during the pandemic. And this is at a time where I think recipes are the number two or number three use of the internet. The, the third largest use of the internet might be looking for recipes. So even though everyone absolutely knows you can get free recipes everywhere, uh, cookbooks are still enjoyed by a lot of people. And, uh, my publishers have definitely impressed that upon me. And, and you know, they're really excited about this new book that's 

Jaymee Sire:

Coming up. Well, we're excited to learn more about that as that gets a little bit closer. And even though you have said you hate watching yourself on tv, you've had your fair share of time on our TV screens, t o c guys, grocery games, guys, ranch, kitchen. Is it true that you wait until t o c finally airs to discover who made those dishes? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

That is a hundred percent true. . Yeah. I'm so terrified to know anything in advance. You know, the secrecy is real. I mean, they are very strict about church and state. The, the judges are sequestered. We don't know who's competing. We don't know who cooked for us, you know? And it's important to keep that competition as pure and honest as it is to, to keep us separated. And I wait till I wait till it airs and then I watch it and I, I sort of reverse engineer my experience and figure out who was cooking. You know? Cuz sometimes it's a year later, you can barely remember, but yeah, this time it'll be pretty close to shoot shoot time. So it'll be December to February, which is great 

Jaymee Sire:

When 

Rocco DiSpirito:

You, I'm excited cuz there, there are dishes that I remember that I, I wanna know who cooked them. . You're like, I, there was a dish in this last competition that was, it's like the textbook version of what to do in a competition. It had all the sort of, you know, randomizer elements spelled, I, I can't get into it, but it was so beautifully done. I need to know who did that. And 

Jaymee Sire:

You don't 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Know yet. I just say have no idea. No, I have no idea. I have no idea. I mean, when, and God forbid you ask, they hit you with a club. 

Jaymee Sire:

Yes. . When you do finally watch them back, like, are you watching your, your own performance like trying to become better the next time? Or are you just watching to see what these chefs did? All 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Right, so we're chefs we're always trying to become better the that one, right? Sure. That's just, that's just like part of our ex you know, life and, and work experience. So I am of course definitely trying to learn a little bit about how I came off and, and did, did I sound as, you know, secure and authoritative as I thought I did? Did I sound like I knew I was talking about did I express my, my love or dislikes for the dish? Well all those things. Did I look comfortable? Did my suit fit? You know, that kinda thing. , I'm looking for all those things, but, but those are very hard things for me to evaluate. I, I rely on other people, uh, for that. Cuz the introvert in me is still really the dominant force. So I rely on o you know, close friends for reaction to that, some feedback. But I do, I do wanna know, you know, did I pick the winner? Did I, did, did I have the right take on the dish? And who cooked? Who were the people, you know, sometimes they're close friends or people I've cooked with, you know, on TV and competed with on TV many, many times. And it's just interesting to, you know, interesting and fascinating to just watch a person that you're pretty close to cook something for you and you not realize it. And it's also interesting to be surprised sometimes with, you know, newcomers or, or people you don't know at all to cook something that you love so 

Jaymee Sire:

Much. Yeah. By the way, I, I don't think it's like that weird that you don't like watching yourself on tv cuz even somebody that's done not okay, I've done TV my whole career, I love doing it. Yeah. But I hate mm-hmm. watching myself, especially if other people are in the room, I get like really embarrassed for some reason. I don't know why.

Rocco DiSpirito:

That’s terrifying. It's, it's, you really just, you just don't wanna be in a room where you're on TV and, and I don't know, 

Jaymee Sire:

It's surreal, right? Like you're sitting there watching yourself on a screen. It's weird. It is. It's weird. 

Rocco DiSpirito:

But are you, are you like me where you're terrified you're gonna make a mistake on television that it's gonna, you're gonna be exposed , you know, to the work. Do you feel like that? Or?

Jaymee Sire:

Maybe a little bit more when I was, you know, doing live tv Yeah. And like breaking news and that kind of thing. Yeah. That was a little bit scarier because, you know, you are relying on, you know, thinking on your feet and, and your knowledge of something to get you through something. But I feel like the taped stuff is a, not that you really like start over ever, you Know?

Rocco DiSpirito:

Well, some tape stuff you do, but most of it is all 

Jaymee Sire:

It is as live, 

Rocco DiSpirito:

You don't really Yeah. It's, but don't you find, do you agree that you get the live TV credit when you do live tv so that you feel totally fine with any mistakes 

Jaymee Sire:

Or any Yeah, that's true. 

Rocco DiSpirito:

fumbles or, yeah. Yeah. You just, I feel totally fine when I, I fumble or I can't remember something on live tv. I feel like if you're able to just get through the segment, you did pretty well, 

Jaymee Sire:

. Yeah. There's no editing in in live tv. Right. Are there any, 

Rocco DiSpirito:

And it's so much more alive. 

Jaymee Sire:

You know, , any non spoiler details that you can share about this upcoming season four of t o c? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

I wouldn't dare try to discern what was a non spoiler detail from a spoiler de I would never even try. Guy would kill me if I made a mistake. Yeah. So I can, I can definitely confirm there was a show. It was, it was 

Jaymee Sire:

Shock. You were there. 

Rocco DiSpirito:

I was there. People competed, food was cooked and food was enjoyed. And that's about it. And it'll be on very soon February, I think middle of 

Jaymee Sire:

February. All right. Well we were looking forward to it. I love, I love the, the tournament, you know, format. I love, I mean, being obviously with my sports background, I, I think it's just a great way to Oh yeah. To celebrate, you know, chefs across the country. For sure. And you also have an upcoming episode of Guys Ranch Kitchen, which by the way looks so much fun to film. Is it as laid back as it seems, 

Rocco DiSpirito:

You should come and shoot that, 

Jaymee Sire:

Don't you? I know, I would love to. Yeah. What is it like, what is it like on set for that show? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

So it's really, really different and cool in that we're at guy's actual home mm-hmm. , you know, in, in the Lake county of California. We stay there for the, you know, the week that we're shooting in the house and you know, we Yeah. In his house and, you know, in his children's bedrooms. Not kidding. You know, sometimes I stay in Hunter's bedroom, sometimes in ride That's hilarious. Sometimes in the library in the front. And we cook in the mornings, we cook breakfast for each other, we cook dinner for each other and we hang out with guy and, and his friends a lot. And Mark, who's the producer, mark Dison, who by the way was my first producer on melting pot in the nineties. Really? Mark Dison. Yeah. And so it's super different in that we're not just clocking in, clocking out like a regular TV show. We're there for, you know, number of days. I'll never forget the first time we shot the first season, Mark Murphy and I shared room sometimes we're sharing rooms by the way, . And we were, we were there a day earlier. We walked in and there was a pig's head in the fridge. Okay. . It was like Yeah. With tusks and hair and everything. Wow. And so you would, you would think that we'd be, you know, disgusted. Right. But Mark and I, oh great. You know, we can cook that , we can mix something. So we proceeded to make head cheese, you know, or, or Tesla orsa, depending on what part of the world you're from, basically. You boil it, you boil the heck out of it. You, you put it all together in a mold and you slice it and serve it with a vinegar. It's delicious. But, you know, it's a gruesome process. Mm-hmm. , you gotta boil this entire head with a jowls and the teeth and you know, the chin and nose and ears and, and scalp and take out the hair. And it's like, but Mark and I were like, yeah, no problem. We'll do that. 

Jaymee Sire:

That's, that sounds great. 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Yeah. And we made a head cheese that we served on the, like probably one of the first episodes and everybody loved it. I think Monique was there and she really loved it. Or Alex Elli knows Alex was Alex, she loved it. She was so, she was thrilled that someone put it to Good Deal . So it's, it's kinda like that, that would never happen anywhere else. 

Jaymee Sire:

Yeah. How did you guy you and Guy meet 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Guy and I met at a Food network event? Mm. 10, 12 years ago. We stayed in touch. He was super charismatic, as you can imagine. Very, very, uh, much about being, you know, accessible and a pal and just a nice guy. And so the, the affection for each other was, you know, pretty real and pretty instant. And I remember when Food Network hired me for Restaurant Divided, asking him for some advice. We, we spoke a lot during the development of that show and became closer. And then they asked me to do grocery games many times. And for some reason it was explained to me that it was shot on the other side of the world. You know, it was, it was like Northern California. It's a hour. I dunno, it was ex it was explained a little incorrectly. And I, I, so for some reason I, I always thought I couldn't do it. And then I finally did and I thought, well, this is not that bad . And, um, and I've been doing every season ever since. So that's sort of how we met, you know, through Food Network. Like, like how most people meet Guy. I'm, I'm not one of the OG pack of friends that he claims as, you know, closest friends that come from Ferndale and that Geyserville, you know, Northern California mm-hmm. , but you know, from everything I can tell he was guy back then too. He was no different back then. He was the, the big personality that you see on mm-hmm. on TV today with the hair and the make, you know, hair and the jewelry and the tattoos, you know, identical. So you've had him on this show, right? Have 

Jaymee Sire:

You? Yeah, we did. We actually, he, we had him on the very first Right. Very first season of Food Network. Obsessed. So he was, he was great. And, and so many people that we've had on the podcast have echoed the exact same thing that you just said. That he is just the same as you see on tv and he has been, yeah. For forever and ever. So that's why we love him. And we're looking forward to seeing more of you on his shows in the future. Thank you so much. We're gonna finish things off with a little rapid fire round and then we have one final question for you, and then, and then we'll let you go. Rapid fire. Yeah. Rapid fire. All right. Favorite meal at Balza? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

I think you know what that is. It's the three-tier seafood platter that's called Alza. It's still a good deal by the way. It's, it's still under 200 bucks. It should be $800, but . Yeah. So LABAs are three three, uh, level multi-sensory seafood tower. My favorite meal. Labar 

Jaymee Sire:

Dogs or cats? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Both. Why choose? Yeah, I have both. 

Jaymee Sire:

do you have I have two of each. Do you have a signature dish? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

I think I do, yeah. It's a tailor based scallops, or let's call it the pecan based scallops with mustard oil, unie and tomato water. That's sort of the dish that people know me for. And the dish that I think made the biggest splash for 

Jaymee Sire:

Me. Your favorite cookbook of the 14. 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Oh, that's easy. My first one, it's called Flavor . That's about sour salt. Sweet. Bitter being the, you know, the rules to live by. 

Jaymee Sire:

What music genre do you listen to the most? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Huh? Is Lady Gaga a genre? 

Jaymee Sire:

? Yeah, I think so. I think she's her own genre at this point. La 

Rocco DiSpirito:

La 

Jaymee Sire:

Lala 

Rocco DiSpirito:

. I listened to Lala. 

Jaymee Sire:

Yeah. Everyone should learn to cook what? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Omelet? Risotto, roast chicken, green salad soup, vinegarette steak. 

Jaymee Sire:

Okay. I think that's a good list. 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Those are the five basic 

Jaymee Sire:

, the kitchen tool you cannot live without. 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Okay. So I have a wacky chefy answer to this one. Okay, love it. I'll, I'll give you that one first and then then I'll give you an actual tool. Okay. . So I think the pallet is the kitchen tool that most chefs should work on the most. We're all born with a pallet. It sort of tells us what we like and dislike immediately, but it's usually wrong for the first 20 years of your life, . And then as you become a chef, you, you really start to train the pallet. Just like we train our mind in school. You train your palate, you, you go out and travel, you taste many, many different things. And ultimately your pallet is gonna be the most important tool. It's gonna give you all the information you need while you're cooking, as you're cooking and developing dishes, as you're cooking on the line. Your palate is the biggest source of information. You know, if you notice good chefs taste while they cook constantly, and I know it's, it grosses a lot of people out. But let me tell you, if you walk into a kitchen and chefs are tasting their food constantly, it's probably gonna be be really good food, . Cause cuz think about it, a lot of people don't taste their food and, you know, often it's not good . So your palate most important, the palate then, then I like the pairing knife. I like the Kon a lot. I like the, the little, you know, zest or greater things that we all have a million of. Those are all really great, a great saute pan. Those are all important. I like a toast robin a lot. 

Jaymee Sire:

Okay. All right. Our last question is not rapid fire, so you can take as long as you want on this one. And we ask this for everybody, so we wanna hear. Okay, sure. What would be on the menu for your perfect food day? So, breakfast, lunch, dinner, dessert. You can, okay, sure. Time travel easy, you'll spend as much money. There's no rules. 

Rocco DiSpirito:

So yeah, so I traveled to Italy or France where I've lived and, and worked and I would have an espresso and, uh, either bag or, uh, or Corno, which is, you know, the either the Italian or the French serve of breakfast pastry in France. They eat a lot of leftover baguette with just a ton of butter on it, which is so good. Yu And in Italy they have a corno, which is like an Italian laminated pastries. Mm-hmm. basically the question of Italy. Um, it's not quite as buttery, but it's, it's sweeter and, and delicious. So that's like, you know, probably, actually let me add one more sip before Please. So I've, I've done this a couple times in a while, living in France where we would go to Raji, which is the seafood market, and we'd have oysters and chak at like four in the morning. What? And that's definitely a great way to 

Jaymee Sire:

Start the day. Love that. . 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Definitely a great way to start the day. And in Japan too, I've done that and had rocket sushi. Yeah. A beautiful tune. Yeah. Sushi. Uh, so that's, so, so that's like four to 6:00 AM Okay. And then 8:00 AM is the coffee. And then I would move into a semi brunch mode. Okay. Where I'd like think about eggs. Uh, definitely some thick cut bacon, definitely something silly like, you know, pancakes or french toast, something that requires a ton of syrup, . And then around 1:00 PM I would move into the crude bar, the labar of the world, you know, those, those dishes where it would just be, you know, like raw scallops and cook shrimp and oysters and clams and uh, crab ceviche, that kind of thing. I, I'd enjoy that for several hours. Uh, I gotta have some good friends there and need a few bottles of wine , especially some bubbles. Yep. And then I think you wanna get into some wacky stuff. Like, I don't know this, you said my perfect food 

Jaymee Sire:

Day, right? Yeah. It's 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Your day. So then you wanna get into like some Thai food like Patsy or Pat Thai or, um, some, some crazy, they make crazy dishes with catfish that you never think you're gonna like, but are delicious. And then I think you could, if you can stand another bite, you wanna get into some of the heavier French stuff, like liver pat, uh, maybe some duck leaks, that kind of thing. And some big red wines from either Tuscany or France. And, and then I think that's about it. , I think you're gonna be pretty, pretty 

Jaymee Sire:

Happy. Are you gonna have dessert or are you not a dessert guy? 

Rocco DiSpirito:

So I'm not a dessert guy, but I think this perfect day I would have dessert. And I, what I would probably like a lot is either Zoni, the way my mom used to make it, which is, you know, essentially a warm custard made from egg yolks and sugar, or there's a cake that, it's a classic cake, but they make it in a modern way at a place called Santa Rose. It's called the Jeana. It's, you know, it's um, hazelnut and chocolate and it's multi-layered. And I think a big slice of that would be just wonderful. And then I guess if you're gonna go all the way, probably some tomorrow or Madera. Okay. I haven't had Madera in a while. , no one's had Madera in a while. Right. When was the last time you had Madera? 

Jaymee Sire:

Uh, I ever, never. No, I've definitely had it. I couldn't tell you though that, yeah, it doesn't come to mind. But, um, 

Rocco DiSpirito:

So an oxidized, fortified alignment. Madera of course. 

Jaymee Sire:

. I mean, it sounds like a fantastic 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Day. Ages 

Jaymee Sire:

Up a lot here. A fantastic day. I mean, that's a full day of food. Start us at four in the morning and, and who knows what time.

Rocco DisPirito:

I haven't seen you come to New York. If this sounds good to you, we'll attempt to accomplish this. 

Jaymee Sire:

Yeah, I mean I live in New York, so let's do it. Oh, okay. Great. Okay. Alright, let's set it up. . No, thank you so much for You're welcome. Taking the time. It was such a, a delight to, uh, get to, to chat with you for Me too. Thank you so much and good luck with the next cookbook. 

Rocco DiSpirito:

Thank you so much and good luck to you too. 

Jaymee Sire:

Loved catching up with Rocco and I am, uh, booking a trip to France, a s a P after that last food Day response. You can catch 'em on guys Ranch Kitchen, February 4th at noon on Food Network and the new season of Tournament of Champions premiering Sunday, February 19th at 8:00 PM Also on Food Network. Make sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss a thing. And if you enjoy today's episode, please rate and review. We love it when you do that. That's all for now. We'll catch you foodies next Friday.