Beloved pastry chef, Caroline Schiff, talks about her statement head of hair before describing what a typical day in her life looks like. She talks about her love of running, including her favorite New York City running route, and the surprising physical demands of being a pastry chef. Caroline talks about her path to pastry via a French degree and love of fashion and how all of these interests have influenced her as a pastry chef. She describes how seasonal ingredients steer the direction of her ideas and the challenges of navigating the culinary scene in New York as a young, female chef with no formal training. Caroline talks about being a part of the reopening of the historic Gage and Tollner restaurant in Brooklyn and the story behind her iconic and labor-intensive Baked Alaska for Two. She talks about how her new cookbook, The Sweet Side of Sourdough, was a product of the pandemic hobby that swept the nation and how the need to keep a starter alive inspired her to innovate. Caroline lovingly talks about her Jewish heritage and her family’s traditions during Hanukkah and Shabbat and what it was like to film Beat Bobby Flay. Start Your Free Trial of discovery+: https://www.discoveryplus.com/foodobsessed Connect with the podcast: https://www.foodnetwork.com/shows/food-network-obsessed-the-official-podcast-of-food-network Follow Food Network on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/foodnetwork Follow Jaymee on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jaymeesire Follow Caroline Schiff on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pastryschiff/ Learn More About Taste Of: https://www.foodnetwork.com/shows/taste-of
Beloved pastry chef, Caroline Schiff, talks about her statement head of hair before describing what a typical day in her life looks like. She talks about her love of running, including her favorite New York City running route, and the surprising physical demands of being a pastry chef. Caroline talks about her path to pastry via a French degree and love of fashion and how all of these interests have influenced her as a pastry chef. She describes how seasonal ingredients steer the direction of her ideas and the challenges of navigating the culinary scene in New York as a young, female chef with no formal training. Caroline talks about being a part of the reopening of the historic Gage and Tollner restaurant in Brooklyn and the story behind her iconic and labor-intensive Baked Alaska for Two. She talks about how her new cookbook, The Sweet Side of Sourdough, was a product of the pandemic hobby that swept the nation and how the need to keep a starter alive inspired her to innovate. Caroline lovingly talks about her Jewish heritage and her family’s traditions during Hanukkah and Shabbat and what it was like to film Beat Bobby Flay.
Start Your Free Trial of discovery+: https://www.discoveryplus.com/foodobsessed
Connect with the podcast: https://www.foodnetwork.com/shows/food-network-obsessed-the-official-podcast-of-food-network
Follow Food Network on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/foodnetwork
Follow Jaymee on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jaymeesire
Follow Caroline Schiff on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pastryschiff/
Learn More About Taste Of: https://www.foodnetwork.com/shows/taste-of
Find episode transcript here: https://food-network-obsessed.simplecast.com/episodes/caroline-schiff-on-her-gravity-defying-hair-the-sweet-side-of-sourdough
[MUSIC PLAYING] JAYMEE SIRE: Hello, Hello and welcome to Food Network Obsessed. This is the podcast where we dish on all things Food Network with your favorite Food Network stars. I'm your host Jamie Sire and today we have a pastry chef making her mark on the culinary scene in New York. We talk all about her latest cookbook, her famous baked Alaska, and that gravity defying hair. She is the executive pastry chef at Gage and Tollner in New York City, author of the Sweet Side of sourdough and you can catch her on Food Network's digital series Taste Of. Its Caroline Schiff.
Caroline, welcome to the podcast. I literally squealed when we found out we were booking you as a guest because you and I first met at the Edith's pop up in New York City. I think it was like 5:00 AM. You were explaining to me the intricacies of making process. So, so lovely to reconnect with you here on the podcast.
CAROLINE SCHIFF: Likewise. I was so excited when I saw this email pop up and your name, and I was like, Oh my God. Let's do it.
JAYMEE SIRE: I know. By the way, I remember that day your hair was pretty tame or I should say covered at the time.
CAROLINE SCHIFF: Right.
JAYMEE SIRE: That is not the norm, which I learned later from following you on Instagram. I wish people could see you right now, but they could definitely go to any photo of you and see what I'm talking about. Your hair is sort of its own main character by this point. Has it always been such a signature part of your look?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: It totally has. Even when I was a little kid I've always had big hair. It's always just been this statement and I feel like it's got kind of its own identity.
JAYMEE SIRE: I mean, how? I mean, does it just get that way on its own--
CAROLINE SCHIFF: Yeah.
JAYMEE SIRE: --you have to like shush it up?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: No, no, I do nothing. Sometimes I feel like I have to tame it and shush it down. Yeah, it's just, it's a beast.
JAYMEE SIRE: It is so, It is so you.
CAROLINE SCHIFF: Oh, thank you.
JAYMEE SIRE: Like you said, part of your identity. And you are totally, I would say, "it girl" right now. You are the executive pastry chef at the historic, but newly reopened Gage and Tollner, seems like you have a feature in a different magazine every week, and you just released a new cookbook on sourdough. I am so excited to talk to you about all of this stuff. But with all of this activity going on, I mean, what does a typical day look like for you these days?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: Most of my days are I'm at the restaurant. I'm at Gage and Tollner. And I am a restaurant person through and through.
Yeah, I mean, depending on the day and what we have going on, I'm either in the morning doing prep all day or I go in a bit later and I'm there through the evening and through closing and I work service. So it just kind of depends on the schedule and staffing and whatever. But I would say that's where I spend most of my time and I just love-- there's something about restaurants and the energy and the almost like performance aspect of it that I have always just been so drawn to. Yes, I just I love being there.
JAYMEE SIRE: I know you're a big runner as well. How do you how do you fit that into your busy schedule?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: Oh my God, it's hard. And honestly, the past few weeks it's been particularly difficult because also my job is very physically demanding. So you're on your feet for anywhere from 8 to 12 hours depending on the day and what needs to happen, you're up and down stairs all day, you're lifting bags of flour and things like that. So if it's a particularly busy week. I find it really challenging to run because the idea of just exerting myself more is a little crazy.
But yeah, I mean there's periods in my life where I've trained for marathons and things like that. Like right now, I'm not doing any of that. I'm really just focusing on work. So it's like wherever I can fit it in, a couple miles here and there that's enough to kind of clear my head.
JAYMEE SIRE: Well, like you said, you're getting plenty of exercise in at work lifting things and being on your feet all day.
CAROLINE SCHIFF: I think people don't realize how physically demanding in particular, I think, pastry is just because of the, I guess just the nature of it.
Yeah, like lifting bags of flour, scaling things out, especially the volume we do where it's like a batch of parker house rolls. That dough that we make every day depending on how many customers we're expecting, private parties, whatever. That ball of dough can weigh easily 30 pounds. And you're getting all those ingredients into the mixer, you're getting all those ingredients out, you're moving it into the walk-in, you're pulling it out to shape it. So you're doing this over and over and over. So yeah, pastry in particular, I think, is really physically challenging.
JAYMEE SIRE: How did your expectations of what it kind of looked like to be a pastry chef kind of line up with the day to day reality of what it's actually like?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: It's a good question. I actually don't know if I've ever really thought about it because what I do is just like the most normal, natural, comfortable thing for me. I always tell people there's absolutely nothing else that I could do because this is just, it's so normal to me.
A friend stopped by one day and she came into the kitchen to say hi and she's like, I have to leave. This energy is so stressful and chaotic. And I'm like, what are you talking about? This is like, it's just my world. Yeah.
JAYMEE SIRE: Well, I mean, you say you've always wanted to bake, but I know you have a French degree from St Andrews in Scotland. You came back to New York with fashion kind of in mind. So how did that path evolve into what you're doing now?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: I think I just always knew I wanted to create stuff. I mean, I've always been a creative person, an artist. I've always felt very comfortable in the kitchen. I like working with my hands. I have a really hard time sitting at a desk. Yeah, I think making things is just part of who I am.
JAYMEE SIRE: And what is that connective tissue you think between fashion and food, like what do you kind of take from your love and your interest in that world and put it into your food world?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: Especially pastry, I mean, it's fun. It's whimsical. It's on some level, like unnecessary. Like we don't really eat dessert with every meal. It's not, it's the treat, it's the fun thing we get to indulge in. And as a chef, it's like it's so expressive.
Each dessert to me, especially like a cake, I mean, you could think about it. I made a cake yesterday and it was just so, for a friend for her birthday and it was so fun to think about the design, and how I wanted to decorate it, and what energy I was thinking about. And it's like any other piece of art in this way. So I think they're all-- I think it's all so related.
JAYMEE SIRE: Where do you draw those, I guess, those creative influences and inspirations from when you are creating something new, like you said, a birthday cake for a friend or a new dessert at the restaurant?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: I feel like the inspirations come in from all these different places. On a very practical level, I'm very, very ingredient driven and in what I do. So sometimes I'm thinking about what's coming up seasonally and then how do I want to showcase it. And so a lot of that inspiration will come from a particular ingredient.
So if I'm like, OK, we're going into citrus season. One of my favorite citrus fruits is kumquats. The tiny little citrus and you can eat the whole thing. It's so cool. So if I'm thinking about kumquats, it's like, OK, I want to build the dessert around that. I don't start with the cake, or the ice cream, or the mousse, or whatever it is. I start with the fruit, or the nut, or the chocolate, or whatever. I build out from there. So that's one kind of source of inspiration and I tend to do like flavor maps where I think about texture, temperature, complementary flavors, things like that. So there's a lot of inspiration there.
I'm also just a very-- as a creative person, I think so much of the inspiration will just, like I'll be thinking about something and I'm just like, I want to put it together on the plate and taste it and bring it to life. It's the inspiration sometimes is like internal from my daydreams and stuff like that. Weird.
JAYMEE SIRE: Do you ever wake up in the middle of the night with an idea and have to write it down immediately?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: Oh, totally. It happens all the time. I'll dream about a dessert, or a combination of flavors, or just like visually something that I want to see come to life on the plate. It happens all the time.
JAYMEE SIRE: You came to New York with no formal training. How did you navigate the intimidating culinary scene here and also kind of hone your skills into what we see now?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: Well, I grew up here and I grew up with a love of restaurants. So I was so drawn to it. And when I got back from Scotland, I just started working in kitchens. And first restaurant I started a small restaurant, the Good Fork in Red Hook, which chef Sohui Kim and her husband Ben Schneider, they are now the owners of Gage and Tollner, along with business partner St. John Frizzell. So there's a really nice full circle thing there.
But this was a small restaurant and I immediately, I started working there. No experience. But it's just like one of those industries where you learn by doing and there's such a tradition of teaching, and mentorship, and apprenticeship in the food world, which is really beautiful.
But again, I don't know. It wasn't intimidating to me. It was like I wanted more of it. I remember just like those first nights of working dinner service and just feeling like I got bit by this bug and now I was obsessed and this was all I wanted to do. So it just felt like these are my people, like I have found my thing. I've found my energy. I am not a morning person. It's,
JAYMEE SIRE: At the end of the day, though, you have to have something about you that makes people kind of want to continue to mentor you, continue to take chances on you. Do you have one personality trait you think that kind of made you stand out a little bit?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: I definitely think I was just so excited by everything. That constantly wanting to learn a little more and a real energy for that. And honestly, that's something, mentorship is so important and that's something that I look for in when I'm hiring now and building the team and everything. I don't look at necessarily somebody's experience and where they've worked or whatever. I mean, all of that is nice, but if somebody is excited about pastry and wants to learn stuff, and just wants to be there and do it, that's the best qualification. Yeah.
JAYMEE SIRE: I mean, you can tell you, you are so passionate about it. Do you think that as a woman in this industry, you do have to work a little bit harder to prove yourself?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: Yes. I am lucky that I started in a kitchen that was run by a female chef. So that's sort of set the tone for me from the beginning of what a great kitchen is, what respect looks like, and what sort of a healthy kitchen is. But I do, I do think that there's still that boys club a bit. I mean, certainly not where I work. And I feel very lucky to be able to be in the position in my career where it's like I can pick the kind of kitchen I want to work in.
JAYMEE SIRE: Well, well, let's talk about your kitchen and Gage and Tollner. This is a historic Brooklyn restaurant. First opened in 1879 but it closed in 2004. Officially reopened this past April after another delay during the pandemic, of course. How has it felt just to be a part of this regeneration of a place that has so much history?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: It's so cool. It is so cool. I mean, first of all, it's like I love old stuff. So the second I heard about this project, this was back in like 2018 and I was having lunch with Sohui, and I had known about the Lore and the history of Gage and Tollner and Edna Lewis and what this place was and how significant it was to Brooklyn for so long. So yeah. So he told me she was like, Ben and St. John, they saw the space and I think we might try to do this, and I don't know. And I was like, this is the coolest thing ever. There's going to be a baked Alaska on the menu. There's so much to say about it.
But I think that as a chef, it really speaks to me but it also speaks to me in terms of the community. That this restaurant was such a fixture of downtown Brooklyn for so long. And to be able to bring it back, especially after going through this pandemic and having it be this place that is bustling and full of energy and good vibes all night is like, it's just so, so wonderful to be part of that rebirth, I guess, of this iconic space and to really pay respect to the whole history.
So in terms of the interiors and doing everything in terms of, when Ben was doing the restoration and the buildout, everything went through the Landmarks Commission. It was done with such care and it was just so, so thoughtful and amazing to see it just really come back to life. And so really looking at all those old menus, how they kind of changed over the years, and sort of paying respect to all of that history, that was just so, so important.
And Gage and Tollner, we meet so many people who-- everybody has a story. Like, oh, I used to come here with my grandfather when I was a little kid. He would take me every Sunday. Or, oh, we got married here 75 years ago. it's just amazing. These people come in and you're just like, the history, It's incredible.
JAYMEE SIRE: No, it truly is. And so much praise already in such a short period of time. I mean, Time Out recently said it was one of the 24 best new restaurants in the world. Not New York, not the US. In the world.
CAROLINE SCHIFF: I know. That was wild. Wild.
JAYMEE SIRE: So wild. And every one of these articles, you alluded to it. It mentions the baked Alaska for two. So if anyone is unfamiliar with this now iconic dish already, tell us, kind of walk us through how this dish came to be.
CAROLINE SCHIFF: Well, baked Alaska is a Victorian era dessert and it was originally served at Antoine's in New Orleans in the 1860s to commemorate the US purchasing Alaska from the Russian Empire. So it's this very old school dessert and it is really, really over the top.
And when you think about making that dessert back then, because I know how labor-intensive it is now. So I think about making it back then and it was, they didn't have ice cream machines in the way that we have them, whipping meringue by hand, like it's just mind blowing. So it was sort of like the epitome of indulgence.
And a baked Alaska is, for anybody who's not familiar, it's layers of ice cream that are set and then the whole thing gets covered in meringue and blow torched. And it's just this big dramatic thing. So it's a labor intensive dessert and it was, yeah, it was very fancy. It was very fashionable back then.
So I knew I wanted to have it on the menu as this nod to the Victorian era. But it was never on the menu at Gage and Tollner. It was served at Delmonico's, but I didn't find any evidence of it ever being on the menu at Gage and Tollner. It kind of fits the era, but it wasn't based on an old menu there.
I also just and even pre-pandemic it felt like that space was just so special and opulent. And I wanted a dessert that sort of fit the space, I guess, and was like a real celebration and kind of like over-the-top thing. And I think in this period that we're in, where it's like, we're vaccinated and we're able to go to dinner, and we're kind of slowly getting to a point where life is getting more and more normal again, I feel like it's so special to have this giant dessert that you get to share with people. It's for two. It's huge.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah. That's really beautifully said. You mentioned it being a labor of love. How long does it take you to create one?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: So it's a three-day process and I tell people that because I want them to understand how special this thing is. We make all the ice creams in house. So day one is making each ice cream flavor. So there's dark chocolate, fresh mint, and a vanilla and marina cherry flavor. So all those bases get made. They have to sit overnight to get the proper consistency.
Then the next day, we can churn them and we start layering them into these big molds we have. I do them in like these big slabs. The vanilla, cherry layer, then that sets then we do the chocolate. That freezes and sets. Last is the mint and then we do this like layer of crunchy chocolate cookie crumb. And then that has to sit overnight to set fully. So that's the day two.
So then day three, you can unroll these big slabs. I portion them out and then when an order comes in, I make the French meringue to order and then I switch it on and then I blowtorch the whole thing. That's the process and it's a labor of love. Yeah.
JAYMEE SIRE: It is a process. What are people's reactions when it comes out to their table?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: I don't spend too much time out on the floor, but I think in general, it's pretty, like people are pretty stunned. Sometimes if I have a friend coming in or I like to go say hi and if they order dessert, sometimes I'll bring the dessert to their table say, hello, whatever.
And I was walking out with a baked Alaska one night recently and I walked by a table that was on their appetizers. And this guy just is like staring at it and he's like, what is that? He's like, I got to have it. I got to have it. People are just so stunned by the size and the drama of it and it's a really fun looking dessert.
JAYMEE SIRE: Especially for people that just have to have dessert. My boyfriend, who you met, Justin has started recently ordering dessert first. That's something that he really wants to have. He wants to make sure he has room for the dessert so he just orders it first. It throws people off all the time. But--
CAROLINE SCHIFF: Oh, that's great. No, he should come. He should come into Gage and Tollner and just get like three courses of dessert.
JAYMEE SIRE: He would love that. I'm always curious, like what is the process of, like said this is a three-day process, like knowing how many people might be ordering dessert on any given night? Like is there some sort of math that goes with that or do you just kind of--
CAROLINE SCHIFF: A little bit. Yeah. One thing about this job that is absolutely like stunned me because I've been working in restaurants for a long time and so I kind of have an idea of what percentage of diners are going to order dessert on any given night.
So I kind of know what a safe number of orders of something is going to be. I don't know if it's coming out of the pandemic or the fact that Gage and Tollner is such a special space, but people there are like, they are ordering dessert. Almost every table gets dessert, which is incredible.
I learned very quickly that we just are going to sell a lot of desserts so now I sort of have a good idea of per week, like what my powers should be for everything. But there are those nights that totally just blow your mind, where you're like, I cannot believe I just sold that many orders of baked Alaska.
So I'm sort of always looking-- at the end of each knob, we inventory everything. So I'm always looking at, how many orders are baked Alaska do I have in the freezer, and how many services is that going to get me through, and when do I need to start the next round? So is a little bit of guesswork, but at this point we have some good data that can inform me.
JAYMEE SIRE: Do you have a record or do you know the most amount of baked Alaska that you ever sold in a single night?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: I'm not exactly sure, but it's got to be like maybe around 30, which is, if you think about it, a lot because these are all for two people. That's at least 60 people eating this dessert. We'll do anywhere from like 175 to 250 covers a night. So the numbers are up there.
JAYMEE SIRE: That speaks volumes for the quality and the flavors that you just described. And speaking of desserts and sweets, your new cookbook the Sweet Side of Sourdough just released. So congratulations first of all. Most people just became obsessed with sourdough in general during the pandemic. You actually wrote a book about it. Was this idea in the works already or was it truly a pandemic baby?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: No, it is a pandemic baby through and through and it all kind of happened by accident a little bit. I never intended to write a sourdough book, especially as my first cookbook because it adds a whole other layer of complexity to every single recipe is the fact that then there's sourdough involved. So right after I kind of proposed it to the publisher and they liked the idea, I got off the phone and was like, Oh, crap. What did I do?
But it really came out of the fact that, so we were supposed to open Gage and Tollner in March 2020. So we had done, I had been in the space since January, we had been doing all the R&D working on everything, we had like hired up our whole staff, we had done parties for the week funders, and we had started doing, we had done like a couple sort of like friends and family services and we were like gearing up. All of a sudden, city shuts down and I'm like, well, I have to keep our sourdough starter alive. So she's going to come home with me.
JAYMEE SIRE: Does she have a name?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: Yeah. So Edna Lewis, who was the chef at Gage and Tollner, later in her career, she was there in the 90s and is just such an inspiration to me and legend. And, I mean, her cookbooks are some of the most beautiful books that I own. She's named after Edna. Edna Lewis.
At that point, we had no idea how long this was going to be. A couple of weeks, who knows. I know I laugh. But it's like, wow, can't believe we all went through this. Anyway, so I was keeping her alive at home and you're feeding this thing every day, baking bread every day, and I was also just sort of losing my mind because I'm a people person. I'm not a homebody. I like to be on my feet.
So all of a sudden, all the things that I love that sustain me emotionally are not there. The way I dealt with it was to be creative and to use this starter not only as a way to leaven bread, but I started seeing it as an ingredient. And it was like, I can't eat any more bread. This is crazy. So I just started adding it to brownies and reworking my chocolate chip cookie recipe. And I just started doing all these things with it as also a way to not waste anything. It's like there were flour shortages and everything. So it all just kind of happened by accident.
And then I was talking to my agent a little bit about it and then this publisher reached out to me and I kind of, I pitched all these other ideas. I was like, well, you know, what about a pantry cookbook, or cakes, or whatever? And they're like, yeah, that's nice. We have stuff like that. And I was like, well, I've been doing this weird thing with my sourdough starter, and they were like, that has legs. And I was like, all right. That was it.
JAYMEE SIRE: What do you think Sourdough adds to desserts and sweets that you can't get from any other ingredient?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: It's interesting. Each sourdough starter has its own personality a little bit, but it adds like an incredible tangy flavor. It tends to make things very crispy. So like really crispy, flaky pie crust, super tender crumb. The chocolate chip cookie, it's my perfect chocolate chip cookie because they get really crunchy on the edges, but the inside stays nice and chewy.
I always love a little bit of like a savory element in my baked goods. I always add a little bit more salt than anybody else does. Because it makes it mouthwatering and it makes you go back for more. Whereas if something is so cloying, kind of can't finish it, sourdough has this savory tangy quality that I just think balances the sugar so well.
JAYMEE SIRE: What would be your advice to anyone out there intimidated by sourdough, or my mistake always is forgetting to feed the starter?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: So we've all neglected our sourdough babies at one point or another. It's OK.
For people who are intimidated, I will say once you've done it a few times and you get into the routine of feeding and you understand how it works, It's really quite simple. Find a book or find a guide online that just makes sense to you because there's like thousands out there and some of them, even I read some of them and I'm like, well, this is crazy. This doesn't make sense. Find a resource that feels comfortable to you because there's so many valid ways to go about making great bread and making sourdough.
And also, the stakes are low and you're going to have some fails. And it's only bread. It's flour and water. So I say, go for it.
JAYMEE SIRE: How do you test your recipes and who gets to sample them?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: During the process of writing this book, and I did the whole thing in six months, which is very quick for a cookbook. And honestly I wish I had, had more time, but it was just sort of, like, we knew the vaccines were coming out. We knew the data was good. So I was like, OK, the restaurant is going to have to open at some point. I just want to finish this.
And I also wanted it to come out now. I wanted it to come out when people are still excited about sourdough. And it's a baking book, I wanted it to come out around the holidays. I really hustled. I got it done in six months. So I was testing like five recipes a day, which is bonkers.
I have a small kitchen. Normal like Brooklyn top floor of a brownstone, cute little kitchen. So I'm baking all day. My pantry was absolute chaos and then I set up an auxiliary pantry in my hallway with bins of flour. It was absolutely deranged.
And then it's peak pandemic, it's the winter, and there's another surge and it's all just scary. And I'm in my apartment just surrounded by baked goods. There's like five cakes around me, which sounds like it's really fun, but it very quickly becomes a very stressful situation. Because you're like, I'm either going to eat all of this or it's going to go to waste. And I don't want either of those things to happen.
So I ended up just really connecting with a lot of friends and my neighbors and stuff like that. And so a friend would bike by and I'd toss them a bag that had whatever in it and I'd be like, all right. Well, go eat it and then give me some feedback.
One friend who lives two blocks away, I like shoved a bunch of sticky buns in her mailbox one day.
JAYMEE SIRE: Normal.
CAROLINE SCHIFF: Totally, totally normal. Or like other people live in my building so I would leave, downstairs in the entryway, I'd leave like a bag of biscuits or something like that. So I feel like I was able to share stuff.
And then, sort of, once I tested a recipe a few times and felt it was getting there, like it was going to be solid enough, then I had a couple of recipe testers, who were all so, so wonderful, who I gave recipes to and they just kind of-- having another set of eyes on them that are also very informed. And yeah, so my recipe testers really helped me just put those finishing touches on everything.
JAYMEE SIRE: And I'm sure, like you said, all the sourdough starters are different. So having other people test them with their own stars I'm sure was very helpful as well.
CAROLINE SCHIFF: And everybody's ovens are different. So I think that recipe testing process for cookbooks is so important because every home kitchen is different. And you kind of have to work it into the recipe that this could take 25 minutes to bake or 35 minutes. That if you live in New York and it's really cold, it's going to take three hours for this to rise. Whereas if you're in Florida, it's going to be ready in an hour. Things like that. So you kind of have to-- it's great to find a recipe testers that have all of these different situations to help you work out all those little kinks and bring it to life.
SPEAKER 1: Coming up next. Caroline chats about filming Food Network's Taste of Digital series where she shares some of her favorite Jewish recipes and traditions.
JAYMEE SIRE: And also another special thing that happened recently, you feel some digital content for Food Network Taste of Series. So far one of them is out. Taste of Hanukkah. You also did Taste of Shabbat. I watched Taste of Hanukkah and it felt like, it was a food video, but it also was almost like a meditation. You have a way of describing the food and especially these recipes that are really personal to you. The Hanukkah episode is the, wait, tell me if I'm saying right. Sufganiyot
CAROLINE SCHIFF: Yeah. Yeah,
JAYMEE SIRE: All right. So which are the jelly donuts traditionally eaten during Hanukkah. We like to go to Ostrovitsky's in Brooklyn and get ours every year. So I'm a little bit familiar with the tradition because my boyfriend is Jewish. But walk us through the history, the significance, and why this was a special dish for you to prepare for this series.
CAROLINE SCHIFF: One thing about Judaism that I find really, really beautiful is that we have so much symbolism in food. And every holiday has the foods that are important and significant that you absolutely must have. I just think it's like a really beautiful way to tell a story and observe a holiday. In Judaism, we really get to do that. And I just I think it's so special.
So all the holidays, for me, there's like a baked good. That's so, so important in nostalgic. And, you know, Hanukkah is all about fried food. It's all about the oil and the miracle of Hanukkah. So it's a very delicious holiday. It's why we eat latkes. But really, anything fried will hold that symbolism. Sufganiyot are one of those things. They're just fried, light, fluffy, delicious donuts traditionally filled with jam. But you could fill it with custard, Nutella, whatever.
JAYMEE SIRE: And you have Taste of Shabbat coming out next year as well. Can you give us a little sneak peek of maybe what dish we're going to see, or?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: I will not give anything away. But Shabbat happens every Friday at sundown and it's about giving thanks, and relaxing, and sitting down to a beautiful meal with people you love, and taking a break. And it goes through Saturday.
But for me, my memory growing up, and this will explain basically my entire personality, we would go to synagogue and it was Friday night and you would sit through services. And then right after services, there's the Oneg Shabbat, which is just like this beautiful evening spread of cookies, and pastries, and cakes, and tea, and coffee, and it's just this lovely tradition.
I would run from the sanctuary to the reception room because I was like, I had to have first pick of the spread, and the cookies I wanted, and the cake I wanted, and everything. So it was all about, it was all about the sweets for me. So yeah. On my Shabbat episode, it's sort of tribute to that tradition of having something sweet that can then last you through the weekend. And it's really beautiful.
JAYMEE SIRE: No, it's beautiful to just how much you identify with your Jewish heritage. I know your bar mitzvah necklace is very important to you. You never take it off. How much does all of that kind of play a role in your life and your work?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: For me, I mean, obviously I work nights and weekends and so it's, I'm not observant in that way, but it's something that's so important to my family. These holidays, and traditions, and gathering together. And just having that be something that no matter how busy everybody gets, we make the time to do it.
And especially during the peak pandemic when we really couldn't see anybody, my family and I would do Shabbat over Zoom. We did Passover over Zoom. And it was a way to keep us all connected, and it was definitely an emotional lifeline for all of us.
My brother is an ICU doctor and it was just-- he was going through his own experience with the pandemic that was just so, so intense and heartbreaking. And so I think for us these traditions and a lot of the Jewish holidays are about resilience and finding joy and things like that. It really brings us together in this beautiful way.
And I think that, yeah, as a chef, I love seeing symbolism and meaning in food. And as I said, in Judaism, we have so much of that. I do bring that to work with me. It's not specifically about anything Jewish. At that point, it's just food is so much more than just this thing we eat. Food is so emotional.
JAYMEE SIRE: And it's so special that you get to share some of those traditions with us on this digital series. And Food Network fans also might recognize you from a couple of episodes of Beat Bobby Flay where you were a competitor. What was your experience like filming that show?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: It's awesome. I had a great time, obviously. So he's so great. He's so professional, easy to work with. But he has the home court advantage and I just feel like it's a little unfair, whatever. But it was so awesome.
The first time I went up against Bobby, I did like a chocolate almond ganache tartlet thing. It was a Valentine's episode. And then I got a rematch and I lost again. I did key lime pie. The process, the sort of behind the scenes, it's so cool because everybody on set is just, they set you up. There's so professional. They give you this pantry tour.
As you're cooking, if you need anything, you can just like yell and the whole-- like, you can scream like, Vita-Prep, and they're like, bottom left. It's just they're just know what they're doing. It's really great. I love it. I mean, I'm somebody who works really, really well under pressure. I actually like it because I think it just kind of like puts me in the zone a little bit.
So the clock starts and you just go. And there's so much adrenaline and energy and it's fun to. Bobby's joking as he's cooking and you have this banter with him and the judges. So yeah, that show is really fun.
JAYMEE SIRE: No, it is. it is a machine, for sure. Very well oiled machine. And you went the right route. I mean, the playbook is, go sweets, go desert, up against Bobby. But hopefully the third time's the charm. As a judge, I don't think I'd want to until my third or fourth time on the show.
CAROLINE SCHIFF: I would love to judge as well. Any dessert episodes coming up.
JAYMEE SIRE: Putting it out into the universe. Well, this has been such a delight and joy to reconnect with you. We're going to finish things off with a rapid fire round and then we have one final question here on Food Network Obsessed. OK, rapid fire questions. Favorite running route?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: From my house I like to go, I live in Fort Greene, I like to go over the Manhattan Bridge. Manhattan Bridge is better for running than the Brooklyn Bridge because there's not as many people and then you get to look at the Brooklyn Bridge. So you get the view. I like to just touch down in Chinatown and then I run back and it's like a perfect 10K. And it's absolutely lovely.
JAYMEE SIRE: Cheese of choice?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: I really think that Harbison made by Jasper Hill is just one of the best foods on the planet. And I would eat that every day if I could.
JAYMEE SIRE: It is a special, special cheese for sure. Butter or jam?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: Butter. Oh, it's my,
JAYMEE SIRE: Favorite fashion memory?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: There's like a picture of me as like a, I must be like four years old where I just insisted on putting on every bracelet that I owned and they go all the way up my arm. And I can tell just looking at the pictures that I thought I was so fabulous.
JAYMEE SIRE: I mean, you were. I'm sure. Most underrated pastry?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: Just a simple plain but perfectly executed croissant. Not an almond one. Not a chocolate one. Not a filled whatever one. The plain Jane perfect croissant is like, you cannot improve on that.
JAYMEE SIRE: All right. Most overrated pastry.
CAROLINE SCHIFF: I don't know. I don't know if there is one.
JAYMEE SIRE: OK. You can give a pass on that one.
CAROLINE SCHIFF: OK.
JAYMEE SIRE: I'll allow it. I make the rules. All right, last rapid fire before the final question. Latest pinch me moment?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: This is crazy. But I was outside last night and this guy walks by me, he's like walking his dog, and he's like, Oh my God, I'm making your focaccia right now. I got your book. I'm so excited. And I was like, what. Wait, who are you? It was so cool. I couldn't believe it. I was like, Oh my God, you're a stranger. You're making my focaccia. This is amazing.
JAYMEE SIRE: That is really cool and definitely kind of a full circle moment for--
CAROLINE SCHIFF: And I don't think anything like that could ever get old. That's just, it's so special because all I want to do is just feed people. And if it's through the restaurant, or through my book, or whatever, come to my house for dinner. That's all I want.
JAYMEE SIRE: That's really cool. All right, last question here. We asked this to everyone on Food Network obsessed. What would be on the menu for your perfect food day? So we want to know what you're eating for breakfast, lunch, dinner and, of course, dessert. There's no rules. So calories don't count, you can travel wherever in between meals. No rules. Your day.
CAROLINE SCHIFF: First is the perfect croissant, good coffee. I'm a simple girl really. Splash of milk. That's it.
Lunch is a great grilled cheese sandwich. You cannot beat it. Great grilled cheese sandwich.
JAYMEE SIRE: What kind of bread?
CAROLINE SCHIFF: I like it on Jewish deli rye, that's my favorite, and then Swiss cheese. There's tomato on it, a good tomato, pickle on the side, like just perfect, perfect grilled cheese.
For a late afternoon snack, awesome cheese board with olives and good bread.
And then for dinner. I mean, I just want really good pizza. Really good pizza, red wine.
And then dessert. I mean, I can have more than one dessert, right?
JAYMEE SIRE: Of course.
CAROLINE SCHIFF: OK. Well, it's definitely going to be sitting at the bar Gage and Tollner eating a baked Alaska and a piece of coconut cake with somebody I love. That sounds amazing.
JAYMEE SIRE: It does. It sounds like a perfect food day for Caroline. Thank you so much for chatting with us and continued success with the cookbook, with the restaurant, and everything else you're doing in life. It is truly inspiring to watch.
CAROLINE SCHIFF: Thank you so, so much. This was such a pleasure and come visit me occasionally soon.
JAYMEE SIRE: I know. We're doing it. We're doing it. We're doing it. I'm going to hit you up.
CAROLINE SCHIFF: OK. Do it. Do it
JAYMEE SIRE: So much fun chatting with Caroline. I cannot wait to get my hands on her new cookbook and, of course, got to go sit at the bar at Gage and Tollner. You can catch more of Caroline on Food Network's Taste of on foodnetwork.com.
Also just a quick heads up, Food Network obsessed is going to be taking a little break from releasing new episodes over the holidays. But not to worry, we will be back in the new year with more of your favorite Food Network stars. Happy holidays, everyone.
And as always, thank you so much for listening. It has been such a fabulous year with all of you new fans and old. Make sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts so you do not miss a thing. And of course, if you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review. We do love it when you do that. That's all for now, we'll catch you foodies in the new year.