Long-time Chopped judge and chef, Chris Santos, talks about his never-ending quest for the best burger and his current favorite burger style. He talks about the real reason he started working in a kitchen at just thirteen and why he considers himself a “self-taught” chef. Chris shares his favorite parts of opening restaurants and what inspired the bright idea of a working pawn shop at his restaurant, Beauty & Essex. He talks about his passion for family-style dining and his own personal experiences that he will never forget. Chris shares his passion for boxing and what keeps him coming back to the ring, and why he decided to start his own rock music label. He reminisces on his first days on the set of Chopped, the most memorable basket ingredients he’s ever seen, and the exciting new special Chopped: Casino Royale. He finally reveals his favorite boxing movie and the last thing he had to Google.
Long-time Chopped judge and chef, Chris Santos, talks about his never-ending quest for the best burger and his current favorite burger style. He talks about the real reason he started working in a kitchen at just thirteen and why he considers himself a “self-taught” chef. Chris shares his favorite parts of opening restaurants and what inspired the bright idea of a working pawn shop at his restaurant, Beauty & Essex. He talks about his passion for family-style dining and his own personal experiences that he will never forget. Chris shares his passion for boxing and what keeps him coming back to the ring, and why he decided to start his own rock music label. He reminisces on his first days on the set of Chopped, the most memorable basket ingredients he’s ever seen, and the exciting new special Chopped: Casino Royale. He finally reveals his favorite boxing movie and the last thing he had to Google.
Start Your Free Trial of discovery+: https://www.discoveryplus.com/foodobsessed
Connect with the podcast: https://www.foodnetwork.com/shows/food-network-obsessed-the-official-podcast-of-food-network
Follow Food Network on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/foodnetwork
Follow Jaymee on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jaymeesire
Follow Chris Santos on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/santoscooks/
Learn More About Chopped: https://www.foodnetwork.com/shows/chopped
Find episode transcript here: https://food-network-obsessed.simplecast.com/episodes/chris-santos-on-chopped-baskets-boxing-smash-burgers
[MUSIC PLAYING] JAYMEE SIRE: Hello, hello, and welcome to Food Network Obsessed. This is the podcast where we dish on all things Food Network with your favorite Food Network stars. I'm your host, Jaymee Sire. And today, we have a chef on the podcast who shares his story of starting his career at age 13, why one of his restaurants has a pawnshop in the front, and the chopped basket ingredient he just can't seem to forget. He's a chef, restaurateur, owner of a rock music label, and longtime judge on Chopped. Let's welcome Chris Santos to the podcast.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Chris, welcome to the podcast. I am so excited to chat with you today for a number of reasons. But first and foremost, we are both burger aficionados as I understand it. You are always on the hunt for the best burger in New York City, the best burger in your travel. So I have to know which burger currently has your heart.
CHRIS SANTOS: I'm a-- I'm a deep diver. I like to go to places that are-- been around for a really long time. I moved to Los Angeles a year ago after 28 years in New York City. And so the LA area is really great for that because all these out-of-the-way places that have been around forever.
I recently tried a place called Bill's here in LA. It's been open for 60-something years, and Bill is still on the grill, cooking the burgers on the same flat top that he opened the restaurant with-- it's not even a restaurant. It's a little shack. He's in his 90s, and he still goes to work every day. And he's still cooking the burgers. It's kind of a local treasure from what I've heard. So I finally went and checked it out, and the burgers were great. So that's my new favorite.
JAYMEE SIRE: What style of burgers do you get at Bill's?
CHRIS SANTOS: It's like a smash burger, very straightforward, cheese or no cheese kind of thing, bacon or no bacon. There's this-- right when you walk up, the first sign that you see is, no, this isn't Burger King. You can't have it your own way.
[LAUGHTER]
Which I appreciate.
JAYMEE SIRE: I appreciate that. I love a smash burger. That is definitely my new favorite as well. So we could talk burgers all day long, but we have so many things to chat about. You have obviously been in the game for quite some time, starting to work in a kitchen at age 13. What inspired this work ethic as a young teenager?
CHRIS SANTOS: Honestly, it wasn't work ethic at first. It was a means to an end. I started high school when I was 13, and I noticed right off the bat that all the cool kids had cars and were-- and/or played in rock bands. And so I came home and said to my mother that I needed to get a drum set, and that I wanted a car on my 16th birthday. Not a day later and she said, well, then I guess you better get a job.
[LAUGHTER]
So I got a job at a restaurant. She helped with that. It's funny I was just telling the story the other day, I think I was making $1.85 an hour. But it was under the table cash, so I thought it was the coolest thing.
JAYMEE SIRE: [LAUGHS]
CHRIS SANTOS: There's a chef that was hired a few weeks later after I started. He just took me under his wing. The first-- by the way, the first night that I worked there, I suffered severe really bad burn situation, my first night working there ever. And you'd think I would not go back to a restaurant after having a really bad first night, but I went back. They hired a new chef, and he took me under his wing. And by the time I was about 16 or 17 at the latest, I was a full-fledged line cook working alongside grown-ups.
And then I graduated high school. And I had been playing drums all this time and wanted to go be a rock star. And my mother again stepped in and said, go to culinary school. It's only two years. You'll be done at 19, and then you'll have something to fall back on. Went to culinary school, loved it, graduated very high in my class, got a scholarship. They asked me to come to receive a scholarship and stay on for my bachelor's degree in hospitality management. I did that. So it was just kind of like I kept trying to get out of it a little bit, and I kept getting pulled back in.
But then I moved to New York out of culinary school. And I grew up in a tiny little town in New England, and I'd never seen anything culturally as far as food goes as it was in New York City. New York City-- I went from this tiny little town with a couple of thousand people to maybe the greatest restaurant city in the world. And so that was very inspiring. Day by day after that, it just became less of a job and more of a passion and career.
JAYMEE SIRE: At what point did it become that passion for you?
CHRIS SANTOS: A few years after I moved to New York, I took some time off and went to Europe, and spent several months there, and went to like 14 countries and 40 cities, and would spend time in kitchens but mostly would just eat. And the reverence for food in Europe took what I was seeing in New York to an even other level.
One thing back in the '90s-- again, I'm dating myself-- is this country has come so far in the last 20, 25 years culinarily all across the world-- all across the country. But for a while, it was like-- it was like New York, and it was San Francisco, and it was New Orleans. And finding a really amazing restaurant-- yes, there's amazing restaurants. But finding like the local bistro on some side street, I never found them to be particularly inspiring even in New York. I loved all the great restaurants but I was a little underwhelmed with some of the more neighborhood restaurants.
And when I went to Europe, I found that it didn't matter where you were. You didn't even have to be in a restaurant. You could just be in a food market, the food all-- just the care and attention that the European culture was-- the reverence for food, I came away with that kind of experience. And I brought that back with me, and started opening my eyes, and started realizing that it was here, too. I just was looking in the wrong places.
JAYMEE SIRE: What kind of sparked that trip for you?
CHRIS SANTOS: I moved to New York with a couple hundred dollars in my pocket. And I had a job lined up, but it was-- but I was not happy. I didn't like it at all. And so I got hired as a sous chef at a very busy restaurant called Time Cafe, which was very popular in New York City at the time. And within a year, the chef moved on to open his own restaurant. And they offered me the executive chef position, and I really didn't know what I was doing.
We're talking about a restaurant that was doing 500 or 600 people covers for dinner, 700 branches. But I took it, and I learned on the job, made a lot of mistakes, I'm sure, but did well enough that I actually opened up two other locations for them. So I opened up a Time Cafe in the West Village and one on the Upper West Side. But all I did was work. And so my paychecks just went in the bank. By the time I opened that second restaurant and was overseeing the three, I was already feeling a tiny little bit burnt. And I was like, I have money in the bank for the first time in my life. And I want to go learn some more. And I thought the best way to do that was to travel.
And that, to this day, is the case. I find that the best way to learn about cooking and food is to travel.
JAYMEE SIRE: Do you still draw on those experiences now when you're coming up with new menu ideas and food items for your restaurants?
CHRIS SANTOS: Yeah, absolutely. My menus tend to be multicultural, and that's I think because of my world travels have been-- I've been lucky to have traveled kind of far and wide. And I like being able to bring the things that I love back with me, and sort of making them my own, and making them approachable and fun. So yeah, I definitely-- I travel as much as I possibly can.
JAYMEE SIRE: And I know you've mentioned your schooling, your formal schooling at Johnson & Wales University. But you still consider yourself a self-taught chef. Why is that?
CHRIS SANTOS: It's no disrespect to culinary school. Johnson & Wales is a great school. I'm actually doing some work with them as we speak, and they offer a great education. But there's no substitute for real world restaurant experience, right? The classroom is just a controlled environment. And no matter how you try to replicate it-- what Johnson & Wales or culinary schools, in general, I think, do best is they teach you the basics. They teach you the mother sauces. They teach you the knife cuts. And they teach you technique. But they don't teach you that it's really hard to get the restaurant experience.
And so a lot of young cooks, their path out of culinary school is 10 years working with master chefs, right? Working with a David Boulud, or Jean-Georges, or any number of chefs, that's a great path. And sometimes I wonder where I would be today if I took that path. But I didn't take that path. Instead, I went and got a job and got promoted really quickly, and just figured it out-- and opened a restaurant after that, which closed. I made a lot of mistakes there, too.
A lot of the knowledge that I have today and the success that I have today was predicated on a lot of mistakes I made in my 20s while I was self-teaching myself how to do this.
JAYMEE SIRE: What are some of those lessons that you learned?
CHRIS SANTOS: Don't open a restaurant in your 20s. [LAUGHS] I opened a small 27-seat restaurant, and it was great. I got some great reviews. I got my first New York Times review from Sam Sifton. It was a 25 and Under review, so there was no stars attached. But if I have it to this day because it reads like a three or four star review. It was really stellar. And that really got people's attention. The restaurant was busy. But I didn't know how to make money, and I didn't know how to manage money. And it was just me and another cook in the kitchen, who's been with me for now almost 30 years. He's my culinary assistant to this day.
But there were weeks where I couldn't pay him or pay myself. I just didn't know what I was doing. And also, all chefs I think, at the end of the day, if you ask them-- or most chefs-- will tell you that they want to open up their own place one day. Their biggest piece of advice would be to make sure that you are over capitalized because you can never underestimate how quickly you'll fly through money during an opening of a restaurant and those subsequent weeks while you're getting your name out there.
And if you don't have enough money to sustain you for at least six months, you're not going to make it most likely. That's a lesson that I've taught a lot of young chefs that have worked with me and have moved on and do their own thing, is to make sure you have enough money because it's a very expensive endeavor. But once you're on the map, great things can come to you.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah, it sounds like you are a great mentor for a lot of young chefs. Who are your mentors?
CHRIS SANTOS: I think I only really have one. He's my restaurant partner. His name is Rich Wolf. He's the co-founder of TAO Group Hospitality. So TAO Group Hospitality is the company that I am a partner in. We are one of the largest hospitality companies in the world now. We have over 70 restaurants and nightclubs across the United States and across five continents. We're opening like 12 new locations this year. We'll be a billion-dollar hospitality company in the next year or two-- or a billion-dollar company. So it's unheard of.
Rich Wolf started TAO Group way back in the 90s. And he was actually the person who hired me and promoted me into my first executive chef job that we talked about a little earlier. But we became great friends, and he's about maybe 11 years older than me. And we're best friends to this day, but he has taught me so many lessons. He's one of the wisest guys in the world. Period. But especially when it comes to this restaurant business, he's just-- he's meticulous. His eye for detail is incredible.
Now that I design restaurants-- or a part of the design process for the restaurant, I should say-- a lot of-- everything I've learned about design is from him. And the devil is in the details, and he really instills that. There's no such thing as a customer in our restaurants, they're guests. We're not allowed to use the C-word. Everyone's a guest.
Everyone is a guest, and that's something that he really like bleeds, that anyone that chooses us is immediately family because-- especially in the cities that we operate. Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Chicago, New York, London-- people have so much choice. And if they're choosing us for their night out, we are grateful right from the minute that you get to the front door. And you're our guests, not our customer.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah, I think that's so important, especially just making it a full experience for the guest, not the customer. One of those restaurants, Beauty & Essex, locations New York, Las Vegas, Los Angeles-- what is your favorite part about owning a restaurant and then kind of expanding it, opening more of them?
CHRIS SANTOS: My favorite part is the creative process. So I'm in the-- right now, in the development process for a new brand, a new restaurant. It's just fun getting creative and being able to create something from the ground up. I design logos and just that kind of stuff. It's not just about the food. And then, of course, there's the food development. And that's really fun because I travel so much, and because I'm-- my position has changed over time to where I have such big teams and several restaurants that I oversee that I don't really cook that much anymore.
It's kind of funny. My Instagram handle is SantosCooks, and I'm always laughing that it should be Santos Does Everything But Cook.
[LAUGHTER]
But I do-- but I do from time to time. But it's just hard to find the time. And typically when I'm in the restaurant, so I'm running the kitchen and not actually cooking myself. So when I'm creating a new brand, like I'm currently doing, there's lots of test cooking that goes with that. And so I get to roll up my sleeves and get creative, and get back to cooking, which is what it's all about.
JAYMEE SIRE: Do you miss it? Do you miss cooking?
CHRIS SANTOS: Yes, I miss it. Would I want to go back to being chef owner of one 27-seat seat restaurant again and gets cook every night? Or would I like to be doing what I'm doing now? It's kind of a toss-up, but yeah, I miss it. I think that it's just hard, man. It's just-- we're very busy. We have very busy restaurants, and there's always a million things to do.
I'll schedule time where I'm, all right, on Thursday from 9:00 AM to 3:00 PM, I'm shutting the phone off and get in the kitchen. And I'm creating some new dishes for the menu. And then by the time Thursday rolls around, all those slots have been taken out by a phone call here, a phone call there, a meeting here, a Zoom there. So it's just hard to find the time. But yes, I do miss it.
JAYMEE SIRE: It seems like your restaurants all have something special about them. Where do you get that creative inspiration for, like you kind of described, these experiences that you're providing for your guests?
CHRIS SANTOS: Yeah, that's the whole thing, right? We want to create a memorable experience. I, at least-- I can't speak for everybody, I guess, on the planet. But I think that people remember experiences more than they remember a specific dish or whatever. So there's so much that goes into it. And especially in these times and there is so much competition, you need to separate yourself from the pack. And I think the way we do it, and the way I do it, is we create a really immersive experience from the time that you get to one of our venues.
Speaking from Beauty & Essex, the entry there is an operational pawnshop, where we sell tons of jewelry, and antique Rolexes, and guitars. And then you walk through that, and you enter into this really grand space. So right from the jump, before you've had any other experience, you kind of have this sort of strange but interesting and fun experience. And then it's all about-- the whole package for us is when we say that even though I'm a chef, I think hospitality is this much more-- I'm holding my fingers slightly apart.
This is much more important than great, great food, because I am more likely-- if I go to a restaurant and the food is OK, but the service is just amazing, and I'm made to feel special, and valued, and treated really well, I'm more likely to go back to that restaurant than to go to a restaurant where the food is phenomenal but the server, I couldn't order-- I couldn't order a second drink, and when it was time to leave, I couldn't find them to pay the bill, or just, in general, was ignored-- which happens, right? People get busy, and it happens.
But I think that the hospitality has to come first. And then if you follow that up with very, very good food, and then on top of it, do it in these really big, ambitious jaw-dropping spaces that are really highly designed, you're home free.
JAYMEE SIRE: What inspired the pawnshop idea?
CHRIS SANTOS: So the original Beauty & Essex is in New York City on Essex Street. I had a restaurant for 15 years called The Stanton Social around the corner. Essex Street is a little bit gritty-- was what was a little bit gritty when we opened it. And so we wanted to have a transformative experience. We didn't want people to just go from the kind of gritty street into this really opulent beautiful restaurant. We wanted something that was kind of gritty but also kind of glammy, and that's how this pawnshop--
At first, we were going to do like a bodega, like a convenience store. We were going to have Beauty & Essex branded water and Beauty & Essex branded this and that. But that just didn't feel like, for lack of a better word, sexy enough, because the restaurant itself is just so sleek. The pawnshop idea just clicked with us when we were kind of racking our brains on what to do because we could have it be really glammy, which it is with all the jewelry that's for sale. But it's also kind of gritty. It's got all the guitars on the wall. And we didn't know if people were going to get it or respond to it, but it's been a huge hit.
JAYMEE SIRE: That's awesome. By the way, Stan Social was one of the first-- I feel like that was one of the first restaurants I went to when I moved to the East Coast. And I would come down from Connecticut to meet up with my friends in New York, and I remember that experience just being really fun and unique. And I remember the menu very-- very much being like a social dining experience. Why is that particular structure important to you?
CHRIS SANTOS: Yeah, I have a cookbook. It's called Share. So it's kind of my whole ethos. I come from-- I keep dating myself. I am in my 50s. I come from a time and from a place, geographically, Rhode Island, where there was no such thing as sharing a dinner. It was everyone would order their-- look at this menu, and then order one appetizer or order an entree, and order your own dessert kind of thing. And while I was not the first person to do share plates and small plates, I was definitely at the beginning of that when that trend started.
Now, it's kind of the norm. But when that trend first started, I think I was one of the first chefs that was in it. And it always felt like-- chefs spend their whole life developing a style, developing a repertoire of dishes. And it would be-- to only order your own thing and not try anything else, it felt like going to see your favorite band and them only playing three songs. Whereas, if you do that sort of a more family style oriented thing, you can try 8, 9, 10 things. And that's before you even get to dessert.
And I just felt like that was, why wouldn't we want our guests to sample as much of the menu as we can? We're proud of every single item on that menu. Like why limit-- why limit what you can have? So we tried very hard to steer people into sharing. So I just felt like that it was-- and also, I think that it's just a much more convivial kind of experience when people are passing.
Think about all the things-- think about the special holidays and those special moments in your personal life at home, right? When you're at Christmas dinner, or Thanksgiving dinner, that kind of thing, Father's Day barbecue, no one's sitting down and having their own appetizer and entree. Everyone is joyfully passing around plates and, oh my god, you have to try. This is so good. Did you try that yet? Like that's what I kind of wanted to bring, is this sort of celebratory way of dining, where we bring people together.
And then we bring people together around food but in a way that's a shared experience-- sharing dinner, sharing dishes while sharing stories. To me, there's something that seems kind of romantic about that and still does.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah, that's definitely my favorite way to eat. I'd want to try a little bit of everything. Is there a specific meal that sticks out to you that was a shared meal that kind of inspired this whole way that you approach your menus?
CHRIS SANTOS: Yeah, for sure. So Sam DeMarco is a chef that's been around for a long, long time. He had a restaurant in New York City called First, which was on First Street in First Avenue. To me, that's my earliest experience with that kind of dining. And so he to me is-- some people say, oh, you're a trailblazer with this small quick stuff. And I'm like, no, it's not me really. It's Sam DeMarco.
And so several years before I opened Stanton Social, he opened First. And Rich, my partner and mentor, we would go there to eat quite often. And we would start talking about, if we ever open a restaurant together, it should be like this. It should be shared. And then we-- a couple of years later, we actually did it.
JAYMEE SIRE: And how many ever restaurants later, here we are and you're continuing to expand, do you have other cities in mind you would like to expand to that you haven't had a restaurant in yet?
CHRIS SANTOS: Yeah, sure. Right now, we're in talks to do a bunch of things. Nothing is signed, sealed, and delivered. But we are seriously considering opening a spot in London, which would be amazing. I love London. I love visiting, and I would love to have a restaurant there. If for no other reason, so I have to be there a lot.
JAYMEE SIRE: [LAUGHS] That's a good reason. Do you have a favorite food city?
CHRIS SANTOS: Barcelona. It's very nostalgic for me because that was one of those places on that Europe journey that I took in the '90s that really captured my heart-- was Barcelona. And just amazing tapas, and the food is just so amazing.
JAYMEE SIRE: Do you often think about your own legacy when it comes to everything you're building right now?
CHRIS SANTOS: I don't right now. I don't-- if there's a legacy I'm proud of, Stanton Social being open for 15 years is a big one. Any restaurant in New York that has a 15-year run is doing something right. But I think my biggest legacy is that the team that I have around me, all the chefs that work with me, have been with me for a really long time.
Timmy, like I said, has been with me for 30 years. I've got my chef de cuisine at Beauty & Essex in New York has been with me since 1998. My right-hand executive chef, Sarah Nelson, has been with me for maybe 9 or 10 years. And those that have moved on have done really, really well. So I think I've done a pretty good job of mentoring and/or fostering-- that's the other side of it, right? It's fostering a place where people like to come to work. I always say, happy cooks make better food. You're just not going to put your heart and soul into cooking if you are miserable where you're standing.
When I step down one day, those kitchens hopefully will continue to operate in a way where people really love. It's a very collaborative environment. All the chefs get involve in many changes, and specials, and things like that. And it's just people enjoy coming to work.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah, I think that that speaks for itself, right? You've had so many people stay with you for so long. You must be doing-- must be doing something right. Cooking and culinary not your only interest or talent, I know you love boxing-- and not just as a spectator. But you actually get in the ring yourself. Where did that passion come from?
CHRIS SANTOS: The initial passion came from my grandfather when I was really young. Both my grandfathers were fighters. And one of them really just kind of took me on his knee almost and had me start watching boxing-- I think I remember that-- I don't really remember, but 1978 was the first time being huddled around a TV, watching a boxing event. But as years went by, I just really, really began to love it. I didn't actually walk into a gym until I was a bit older. But I've been taking it very seriously since.
Well, I took it very seriously from 1996 to 2010 in Brooklyn, New York at a gym called Gleason's, which Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson trained there for just a couple of references. I did a lot of high contact sparring with pro fighters, with amateur fighter's that were training for the Olympics and things like that. I had my ribs broken-- the same rib actually broken twice in that gym. I broke a knuckle. I was getting cortisone shots in both shoulders for rotator cuff stuff. I also was 170 pounds--
[LAUGHTER]
--which I no longer am. In 2010, I broke that second rib just a couple of weeks before opening Beauty & Essex, and it really hampered me. And so I decided to take a little bit of a break, and I decided I was going to take six months or so off and then go back. And then life happens, and I ended up not going back to the gym until 2020. So I took almost 10 years off. And in the process, I gained 80 pounds.
If you think about it, that's shocking amount of pounds. But 80 pounds over 10 years is 8 pounds a year, that's less than a pound a month that just kind crept up on me.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yup. Yes, it does. [LAUGHS]
CHRIS SANTOS: And then-- yeah. And so I'm down 30 pounds since I've been back to the gym. I'm trying to get down another 30 by May. I'm in serious training now, because I'm getting married in May. And--
JAYMEE SIRE: Congratulations.
CHRIS SANTOS: I train now-- thank you. I train now at Wild Card Boxing gym in Las Vegas. I'm being trained by Freddie Roach, who is one of the most famous boxing trainers in the world. So I'm really fortunate to be working with him.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah, what is that like? You just kind of dropped that there at the end. How is it working with Freddie Roach?
CHRIS SANTOS: It's hard because I'm in the pro gym. There's two gyms there. The downstairs gym is the pro gym. And so I'm the only non-pro fighter that works out in that gym. So I'm training alongside fighters that are training-- matter of fact, one of our fighters, Mark Magsayo, is fighting in Atlantic City on Saturday night for a world championship. He's one of my training partners. Meaning, I'm in the gym at the same time that he is every day. And so you have to work hard. Otherwise, you're just in the way. So it's good in that sense. You really have to work. It's hard, especially hard at my age, too.
JAYMEE SIRE: Would you ever actually fight like-- I don't know-- like an amateur kind of fight--
CHRIS SANTOS: I think that stage is--
JAYMEE SIRE: --celebrity?
CHRIS SANTOS: --behind me. I think it those days are behind me. I don't know. You never say never, right? I get enough action in the gym. I'm pretty satisfied with that.
JAYMEE SIRE: How involved are you in the wedding planning process?
CHRIS SANTOS: Very, actually. It's going to be a pretty amazing wedding. All I'll say is that it's an outdoor event, and I'm building a full-fledged carnival with rides and games that you can play to win prizes. And they'll be sword swallowers and there'll be-- imagine going to like a carnival or a county fair kind of a thing. I'm basically building that. So we'll have--
JAYMEE SIRE: That sounds incredible.
CHRIS SANTOS: Yeah, it's going to be fun. We'll do all the traditional wedding stuff during the day. But when the sun goes down, we're all going out onto the pavilion to hang out at the carnival.
JAYMEE SIRE: So will there be carnival food as well?
CHRIS SANTOS: Yeah, mm-hmm.
JAYMEE SIRE: [LAUGHS] Is that the only wedding food or is there like a traditional dinner beforehand?
CHRIS SANTOS: Yeah, we're doing a very traditional-- like very traditional up front. And then we're kind of just tear the roof off the place and go outside. I've got some like real thrill rides, too. I'm not just talking about a Ferris wheel. I'm talking about real deal stuff.
JAYMEE SIRE: That sounds--
CHRIS SANTOS: It's going to be great.
JAYMEE SIRE: --absolutely incredible. I'm sure the music will be great as well. We talked about your love of music. What are the music plans? Or is that a surprise?
CHRIS SANTOS: No, that is a surprise actually, because there are a couple of pretty well-known acts that have not quite committed yet but that I'm in talks with to perform. So--
JAYMEE SIRE: Well, looking forward to seeing the photos and the recap from that. But speaking of music, you actually have your own music label, Blacklight Media. What was your vision for that label when you started it?
CHRIS SANTOS: I'm a big rock and roll, like heavy metal dork as I was when I was 13, when I wanted to get those drums. I still play drums. I'm actually-- I just started a band at 50-something years old.
JAYMEE SIRE: Amazing.
CHRIS SANTOS: But I have a label, so we can write songs, record them, and I can just put them out on my own label. So why wouldn't I do it? I just love music. It's a big hobby of mine, especially after a long day at work, is to come home and kind of do a deep dive. If you go on Apple Music, Spotify, YouTube, you can do this thing where-- type in a band that you like, and then over on the side there, it'll say, listeners also listen to or listeners also like.
And what I like to do is-- I like to take that 20, 30, 40 steps from the original artist I put in. And then before you know it, you're listening to bands that are really obscure. And I just started really loving these bands and wanting them to have more listeners, basically. I'm partners with a guy named Brian Slagel. He is actually the guy that discovered Metallica and gave them their big break. So he's kind of a legend in this world, and he has the largest independent hard rock and heavy metal music label in the world. And they're celebrating their 40th year anniversary this year.
And I started sending him bands, and then he started signing bands I was sending him. And after like the fourth or fifth band, he said, this is ridiculous. We need to do a label. I said no at first because I don't have any time. But they've been really great. They do a lot of-- they do a lot of the heavy lifting for me. I get to just kind of find the bands that really excite me and part of the process of getting them on board. But once they're on board, my guys are over at Metal Blade Records kind of handle everything else. So I'm able to juggle it.
Although it is more work than-- it's time consuming, right? Because we have bands that have records coming out this year, and I'm a part of-- they'll send us the record before it's fully mastered for notes. And so you've got to really listen to these songs and give really good valid feedback. And that takes more than just one listen. So you've got to find the time in the day with no distractions to sit and listen to music, which should be easy but isn't.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JAYMEE SIRE: Coming up next, Chris gives us all the inside scoop on Chopped.
Well, obviously, you've been a judge on Chopped since the very first season. Take us back to that very first day of filming. Do you remember what that was like, what was going through your head at the time?
CHRIS SANTOS: A hundred percent. I was in Las Vegas helping open a restaurant, and I got a call. And they offered me three episodes, which I think was like a tryout. I had not done anything on Food Network before. I'd done Good Morning America and all those morning shows, and I guess it's where they found me. But I went there, and I didn't-- they didn't prep me. Not-- I shouldn't say they didn't prep me. But I didn't get a whole lot of information.
And so when the first dish was put in front of me, I was sitting on the right side and Amanda Freitag was in the middle-- she picked me up actually. She picked me up that morning, and we drove in together. She told me a little bit about it. She had done some episodes. But I didn't even-- like I was taking clues from her. So if she picked up her fork, I was like, oh, OK. I guess I can eat now. And I took my fork-- you know what I mean? When she put it down and she was done eating, I was like, OK, I guess I'm done eating now, too, like totally just cheating off her homework and totally terrified.
It definitely took me some time to find my footing. But I guess someone liked me because they asked me to come back. And now, here I am 13 years later, we've done-- I don't know-- 600 episodes, 700 episodes. I've probably done 200, I don't even know, competed on the show 5 times. It's crazy. It's unbelievable that it's been 13 years.
JAYMEE SIRE: It's incredible. After so many seasons, do you feel like you could kind of do it with your eyes closed now? You don't have to cheat off Amanda anymore? Or do you still kind of brace for the unexpected at times?
CHRIS SANTOS: Oh, you have to definitely always brace for the unexpected with Chopped. And I think that's one of the reasons why the show is so successful, is-- no two shows are alike. They do a great job casting really talented chefs that are interesting people with great stories to tell. But it really comes down to that basket is crazy equalizer, and the clock is really the public enemy number one, I think. There's always something new to discuss.
I remember I did some episodes maybe in August or September of last year, a few months ago, and I just remember one day even saying off-camera after we cut, my god, the show is unbelievable. It never stops surprising us. It's fun. It's like the Jeopardy of cooking shows. And I hope we can go another 13 years.
JAYMEE SIRE: Is there a dish or a contestant that sticks out to you over the years?
CHRIS SANTOS: Well, you never get-- you never forget your first dish that gets you personally Chopped.
[LAUGHTER]
First time I competed on Chopped, I had goat brains in the basket. Chicken feet are hard. I think I've judged two episodes. And for some reason, no chef has ever thought to cut off the talons.
JAYMEE SIRE: Oh.
CHRIS SANTOS: Yeah, it's really rough to get through-- this has been some fun stuff on set. There was a chef there who returned at least once or maybe twice, and him and I did not see eye to eye at all. His name is Bradley, and we're actually-- it's funny because we actually became friendly off set. He just texted me maybe a week ago, asking me when I was going to be in New York again so we can get a drink.
But if you go back and watch any of those three episodes, we are going at it. And it's like-- it's very clear that we do not like each other. But by the time it was all over with, we actually-- we're like the odd couple. But it worked, and we're friendly. It's great.
JAYMEE SIRE: I'm always curious to know if there was ever a dish that actually made you physically ill.
CHRIS SANTOS: Not really. I will say that there are certain things I just don't like to eat, but you have to eat them when you're there. And so I remember-- I guess my-- the closest-- it didn't make me sick, so this is not really the right answer. But again, you got to remember we've been doing the show for 13 years. I did learn a lesson, and that is I never ever, ever drink on a school night anymore. Many, many, many, many, many years ago, I did.
A friend's birthday party, his 40th birthday party, and we all went out the night before. And it was-- it got a little bit out of hand. It was big party, lots of friends. Like I said, his-- it was a surprise party. It was just-- my best friend, he was turning 40, and so many drinks were had. And so I didn't feel so great when I showed up on set the next day. And uni is something that I just don't like. It's a texture thing. It's a--
JAYMEE SIRE: I'm the same way. I feel like I'm supposed to like it, but I don't.
CHRIS SANTOS: Yeah, exactly, me too. Exactly. But it was in the appetizer basket, so I had to eat four plates of it--
JAYMEE SIRE: Oh.
CHRIS SANTOS: --with a really bad hangover.
[LAUGHTER]
So I learned I will never ever drink again the night before taping, ever, because I don't ever want to go through that again.
JAYMEE SIRE: That's good advice. We obviously have to talk about the new special, Chopped Casino Royale, which is airing right now, so much fun. How does this spin on the show kind of raise the stakes, so to speak?
CHRIS SANTOS: Oh, it's great. I actually wish that we could do it-- I hope it comes back, I guess it's what I should say. It's really exciting because it gives the-- it's another potential pitfall, really, because you can trade your-- an ingredient in for something actually worse, right? And so we saw that-- and when we were taping, is that some chefs were really lucky and were able to trade up really nicely. And some people got even worse ingredient. And so it's fun. I almost wish it was just how we do Chopped from now on.
[LAUGHTER]
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah, maybe it could be like somewhat of a long-standing thing that comes back every season. What are some of the most difficult ingredients you've seen on that version of Chopped? Maybe something that somebody kind of rolled the dice and got a worse-- got a worse ingredient.
CHRIS SANTOS: Yeah, I think somebody-- god, I don't remember exactly. But I think somebody had-- I don't remember what the ingredient was that they had, but they traded in, I believe, and got Rocky Mountain oysters as a substitute, which wasn't great. And there were things that were-- they were-- one of the ingredients, they-- no one picked it. But it was underneath one of the coaches. They had waterbugs, like those big giant cockroaches in New York that have wings and can fly?
JAYMEE SIRE: Yup, yup.
CHRIS SANTOS: They had like chocolate-covered waterbugs. And I was like, I don't know, guys.
[LAUGHTER]
I don't know. I don't know about this. Luckily, no one-- well, at least not on the days that I was there. I didn't judge all of them. Perhaps someone did pick it on a day I wasn't there. But thankfully, I was able to avoid that one, and so were all the chefs.
JAYMEE SIRE: [LAUGHS] Would you consider yourself a gambler or a risk taker?
CHRIS SANTOS: I am. I am a gambler. Actually, I gamble on boxing quite a bit. And when I'm in Vegas, you can often find me a roulette table after work. I love this whole concept.
JAYMEE SIRE: So would you-- you would be one of the ones rolling the dice or not necessarily?
CHRIS SANTOS: 100%, yes.
JAYMEE SIRE: [LAUGHS] For long-time Chopped fans, what is something that they would be surprised to know about the show or this new format?
CHRIS SANTOS: I think-- maybe it's not-- many people know this now, but it's a tremendous undertaking the show. And it takes about 12 hours from beginning to end to do one episode. And just like in my restaurants, actually, the team behind Chopped has really created an amazing work experience for everyone. And so some of the camera operators have been with us since season one, which is just incredible. I've seen so many people start out as PAs, getting the judges coffee and that kind of thing, who graduated to being second assistant director. You know what I mean?
They really foster a culture of staying with the show but also growing. And it's been amazing to see. I think there's like-- I don't know-- maybe eight or nine cameras on set. But yeah, a lot of those folks have been with us for a long time. So I think that's just an interesting thing, and people are always kind of shocked to find out how long it takes to do just the one episode. But there's a lot of moving parts.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah, it's definitely reflected on screen, that it is kind of a big family. You guys all enjoy working with each other. This has been so much fun, chatting and getting to know you a little bit better. We are going to wrap things up with some rapid fire questions. And then we have one final question for you that we ask everybody here on Food Network Obsessed. So rapid fire questions-- favorite boxing movie.
CHRIS SANTOS: I'm not going to say Rocky. I'm going to say Bleed For This with Miles Teller, who plays a boxer named Vinny Pazienza, who is-- in real life, broke his neck severely and had to have one of those halo things inserted into his head. And they told him he would never fight again. And he actually came back and won a World Championship. It's really an incredible story.
JAYMEE SIRE: I will have to check that one out. Something you're anticipating in 2022.
CHRIS SANTOS: Just opening new restaurants, hoping that this pandemic comes to an end, and people can really go back to enjoying each other's company without-- all the stuff is gone. And I'm getting married, so, of course, I'm anticipating that.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah, I know. That's very exciting. Something you've had to google recently.
CHRIS SANTOS: All right. So last night, I'm watching-- here I am dating myself again. I'm watching Barney Miller, which is a sitcom from the '70s and '80s. I was watching, it was on. I was flipping through the channels last night. And one of the characters, his suit gets ruined, and he's talking about how I just bought the suit, and it was $250. And so I immediately googled-- I always do this if I'm watching like an old movie or an old TV show-- how much would $250 be today? I want to know exactly how valuable that suit really was. Turns out, it would be about $1,100. So it's pretty expensive suit. But yeah, I kind of do that. It's weird, but I do that.
JAYMEE SIRE: I like that. I like that. Favorite burger toppings.
CHRIS SANTOS: Oh, easy. American cheese always. My girl Alex Guarnaschelli will agree with me there. American cheese, crispy bacon, mustard, mayonnaise, ketchup, [? nyet. ?] No, I don't want lettuce. I don't want pickles. Tomato is OK.
JAYMEE SIRE: Song on repeat lately.
CHRIS SANTOS: I listen to so much music. I don't know that I can name just one. But I will say that-- you're not supposed to do this, but I've picked up the Christmas record from Sia this year. And I think I've stopped now. But for at least a week or two after Christmas, I was still listening to it, because it's just so fun. [LAUGHS]
JAYMEE SIRE: OK. [LAUGHS] I love that. A favorite cooking hack.
CHRIS SANTOS: Not really cooking, but I love guacamole. I make it all the time. And what I have-- and I've told this story before. But microplane your onions when you make guacamole, because what you can do is-- when you microplane the onion, it becomes more of like a pulp. That kind of just dissolves into the guacamole. So you get that onion flavor, but you're not getting those chunks. I hate guacamole that have big chunks of onion. Because if you get a chip full with a big piece of onion, that's all you taste, right? It's not balanced. But if you microplane the onions and kind of fold them in, you get the flavor but it's not overpowering.
JAYMEE SIRE: I'm definitely trying that next time I make guacamole. Next, travel destination.
CHRIS SANTOS: Italy, I think. This is what we're looking at, like the Amalfi Coast.
JAYMEE SIRE: What's an industry you don't work in but that fascinates you?
CHRIS SANTOS: It's going to go back to-- my three loves have always been food, boxing, and music. I'm always fascinated by boxing referees because it's such the very-- first of all, you're there, first and foremost, to protect the fighters from really getting hurt. But also, there's all these rules that you need to know. And you have to be in really great shape because you have to move around the ring just like the boxers for sometimes 12 rounds.
And I always-- and they're always typically older gentlemen. They got to work their way up. And I always wonder why. Why are you a referee? What attracted you to that? Because I think to myself, well, maybe that's something I could do when I retire the restaurant--
JAYMEE SIRE: There you go.
CHRIS SANTOS: --world one day, yeah.
JAYMEE SIRE: All right. We'll look out for that. All right, one final question. This is the one we ask everybody on Food Network Obsessed, and everyone has a completely different answer. So what would be on the menu for your perfect food day? So breakfast, lunch, dinner, dessert-- you can time travel, spend as much money as you want. Anyone can cook these meals for you. You could cook them. There's no rules. It's your day. We want to hear it.
CHRIS SANTOS: Breakfast is going to be really easy. It's going to be-- we're going to go to France. We're just going to go to-- we're just going to get us a freshly baked baguette and some fresh squeezed orange juice. And then just walk around the city, munching on the baguette that's still warm. And that's the breakfast, for sure. Lunch has to be Spain. Barcelona for tapas, and cheese, and cured meats. That's a definite. Dinner would be street food in Southeast Asia, maybe Thailand or Vietnam. And then dessert would be my mother's chocolate cream pie.
JAYMEE SIRE: That sounds like a great day. And it's been a great chat. Listening to all of your stories, truly, truly enjoyed it. Thank you so much for taking the time, and look forward to seeing you on Chopped for many more years to come.
CHRIS SANTOS: Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun. Thank you.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JAYMEE SIRE: I so enjoyed catching up with Chris, hearing his passion for all of his projects. And I'm definitely trying that guacamole trick. Be sure to catch him on the next episode of Chopped Casino Royale on Food Network, Tuesday, January 25, at 9:00/8:00 Central. Thanks so much for listening. Make sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss a thing. And of course, if you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review. We love it when you do that. That's all for now. We'll catch you, foodies, next Friday.
[MUSIC PLAYING]