This week, host Jaymee Sire talks to chef and restaurateur Cliff Crooks about his experience opening more than 20 restaurants and how the landscape of restaurants has changed over the course of his career. Chef Cliff talks about his tough love approach to mentorship, the most challenging elements of restaurant management and what he has learned over the years. Cliff reveals his favorite culinary spots and neighborhoods in his home of New York City. Cliff talks about his tough love approach on his new Food Network show, Chef Boot Camp, and how he handles the sometimes tense moments of getting struggling chefs into shape.
This week, host Jaymee Sire talks to chef and restaurateur Cliff Crooks about his experience opening more than 20 restaurants and how the landscape of restaurants has changed over the course of his career. Chef Cliff talks about his tough love approach to mentorship, the most challenging elements of restaurant management and what he has learned over the years. Cliff reveals his favorite culinary spots and neighborhoods in his home of New York City. Cliff talks about his tough love approach on his new Food Network show, Chef Boot Camp, and how he handles the sometimes tense moments of getting struggling chefs into shape.
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Find episode transcript here: https://food-network-obsessed.simplecast.com/episodes/cliff-crooks-on-brutal-honesty-dumb-luck-chef-boot-camp
[MUSIC PLAYING] JAYMEE SIRE: Hello and welcome to Food Network Obsessed. This is the podcast where we dish on all things Food Network, with your favorite Food Network stars. I'm your host Jaymee Sire, and today, we have a professional chef on the podcast who has opened over 20 restaurants in his career.
We talk all about how the restaurant industry has changed over the course of his career, how New York has shaped his culinary perspective, and his experience mentoring and coaching struggling chefs on his new show. He is an accomplished chef, the culinary director of BLT Restaurant Group, and the host of Food Network's Chef Boot Camp, let's welcome, Cliff Crooks.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Cliff, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today?
CLIFF CROOKS: Fantastic, Jaymee. Thanks for having me.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah. Thanks for joining us. This is a first. I believe you're recording the podcast from Turks and Caicos, is that correct?
CLIFF CROOKS: Yes, I am. I am semi on the beach. I'm close to the beach, I can see it-- not on it-- but I can see it. It's like I'm in a gigantic aquarium, and I can't get outside.
JAYMEE SIRE: That's better than the view I have, which is rainy New York City at the moment. Are you there for business or pleasure, or both?
CLIFF CROOKS: No. I'm here for all business. We have an opening, we're opening a BLT Steak here, there at [INAUDIBLE] in Turks and Caicos. And I am doing this.
JAYMEE SIRE: Well, not a bad place to be opening a restaurant, and that actually leads into my first question quite nicely. You're the culinary director at BLT Restaurant Group, you've personally opened over 20 restaurants, which is an incredible accomplishment. Can you kind of walk us through a day in the life of your job? Maybe a day in the life of what it's like there in Turks and Caicos, opening a restaurant right now?
CLIFF CROOKS: The best way to describe it is no two days of my life are exactly the same, which is part of the maniacal enjoyment of what I'm privileged to do for a living. It ranges from anything from menu development, to staff and crew development, training new chefs, sometimes retraining existing chefs, working on processes, and all of that, you know, what is semi-boring stuff too a lot of people, but it really helps with day to day operation. And the fun part of it is occasionally getting to actually cook and physically work and handle food whenever possible.
JAYMEE SIRE: What would you say is the most challenging part of your job?
CLIFF CROOKS: The most challenging part? Definitely the human aspect. You know restaurants require people it's one of those things that it's not easily automated, or at least every single position does not have the ability to be automated, and no two people are alike. The human component, and one's attitude, or how they woke up, on which side of the bed on a day-to-day basis does come into play a lot. You could write a rule book of this is how it's supposed to be, one, two, three, and line out someone's day. It's never going to be exact. And training someone, or telling them that they have the ability to be fluid, everything is not black and white, especially in hospitality. You need to be as relaxed and semi go with the flow as much as possible.
JAYMEE SIRE: What would you say is the most rewarding part of your job?
CLIFF CROOKS: Training someone, and having them do it without me asking.
[LAUGHTER]
That's the--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
JAYMEE SIRE: That's the goal, right as a manager, in any profession.
CLIFF CROOKS: That's the-- yeah, exactly. It's not just restaurant and hospitality, it's someone taking it upon themselves to act. And honestly, if they don't know, raising their hand and going, hey listen I have no clue what I'm doing, and that's an OK and acceptable answer, and a great place to be, as long as you say it, so that someone can help you.
JAYMEE SIRE: Do you a favorite restaurant that you've opened over the course of your career?
CLIFF CROOKS: Opening in Seoul was my favorite location. It's the culture, and the items that are only available there, and how they differ from even such as a tropical location. It's pretty-- it was really, really awesome.
JAYMEE SIRE: When you look at of just like the landscape of restaurants, and how they've changed over the course of your career, and maybe specifically over the last year, what stands out to you to the most?
CLIFF CROOKS: Wow, it's-- this industry is night and day, and not just over the past year. The old system of everyone in restaurants and hospitality, you work, work, work, and it's 12 to 16 hour days, and you seemingly beat your head into a wall that, I would say, is a very, very old and antiquated system, and you just keep working, and working, and working seemingly until you die. A lot of that old-school mentality is gone by the wayside.
Thankfully, the other side is a lot of the younger managers and chefs coming in, view it through this lens of I already have put in my time, when you really haven't, and think that they're-- not to use the term, top of the food chain isn't exactly what it is. But they have been in this business for a year, and think they paid their dues, and they don't even need to work eight hours a day, and/or do some of the mundane, or seemingly mundane details that are involved in day-to-day operation, but keep the machine running. While people aren't interested in doing that anymore, and they just want the payoff.
It's kind of like, joining any team and whether like, hey, listen, I'm only here to hit home runs, or I'm only here to score touchdowns. Life doesn't work that way, and getting that across is a much longer conversation which then eats into whatever it is that they really need to learn. It's like, OK, let me kind of reorganize your brain to the reality of where your career actually is right now, and move forward. I love a bit of moxie. I love cocky individuals to a point, because that just means you have a lot of chutzpah, which I do really, really love. But keeping it tamed and knowing when it's appropriate to kind of flex whatever muscle you have is very important.
JAYMEE SIRE: I feel the same. Sometimes, when people reach out to me about their upcoming television career, and you know, I feel so old when I tell them like, I used to carry my own camera and shoot all of my own stories.
CLIFF CROOKS: Yeah, no, no.
JAYMEE SIRE: [LAUGHTER]
CLIFF CROOKS: It's like, that's great, but I just want to start where you are.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah, exactly. Like, how do I get there? Like, well let me tell you a story.
As you look ahead to the future, what do you think the future holds for the industry, cuisine, moving forward as we've seen some of these like innovative things, I would say over the last several years, where do you see the industry going?
CLIFF CROOKS: You know, had we not all lost a year of our lives, food is still food, and there was that, the mumbles and rumors of things such as fine dining dying, which will never, ever happen. It is art, but I think guests are looking for more varied experiences, and super lux fine dining is one aspect, but the thought of going out and spending $200, $300 on a dinner twice a week is not one that is completely sustainable for the everyday restaurant and the everyday restaurateurs.
So a lot more of the middle ground restaurants will continue to pop up, which is great, because competition is great. The other side is where-- I'll use New York as an example. There are thousands of restaurants in New York pre-pandemic and a lot of them sat in that middle range, and they were good. Not great, not horrible, but good. So you've just got this large pocket of OK, and the ones that financially stood out are the quick service restaurants, because people started realizing, OK, so, if I shorten the guest turn time, not only could I create more revenue, and I can also provide more employment for people, really the guest wants to spend x amount. So let's actually-- crazy thought, give them what they want, and move it forward.
You know, especially in an area like Midtown, full of offices, where you're going out for lunch and unless you have a C-suite position, your lunch is an hour or 45 minute lunch, which really goes by super fast. So you've got to get out, get what it is, and either get back to your desk or your cube, or scarf it down, eat it really quick, and still then get out and travel back to the office. And traveling in New York is not the fastest trip, sometimes. So figuring out ways to shorten that guest interaction where they're still happy with their service, they're getting exactly what they want and then they're out.
And then we have everything that's just in the middle. So when you get out, and it's like, 7:00 8:00 o'clock, and you want to enjoy a dining experience, but you don't want to pay $100-plus a head, those things are there for you.
JAYMEE SIRE: And you've been in New York for some time now. Has this always been home, or did you move to New York specifically for your culinary career?
CLIFF CROOKS: No. New York has always been home. You know, I've lived on the West Coast for a little bit of time. You know, it's absolutely beautiful. I would love to go on vacation there but I am a New Yorker. I have yet to find something else that speaks to me the way New York does.
JAYMEE SIRE: How do you think that the city has shaped you as a chef?
CLIFF CROOKS: It's so culturally diverse. If you're unfamiliar with the cuisine, there are a lot of places for you to go, and happily go down a rabbit hole and try to experience what the authentic side of that cuisine looks like. And if one chooses to pay homage to it, and then if not, and you just think it's absolutely fricking delicious then, there are many, many other places like it. I love the city. There's no--
JAYMEE SIRE: [LAUGHTER]
CLIFF CROOKS: There really is no-- yeah.
JAYMEE SIRE: I feel the same, and I know a lot of listeners have given me feedback. They always like to hear chef's favorite restaurants in their own cities. So what are your favorite restaurants in New York City right now that are not your own?
CLIFF CROOKS: OK. So we'll go highbrow and then everyone. So one of my absolute favorites, Gramercy Tavern will always sit number one, and it's also a very near and dear to my heart. Both the tavern room and the main dining room are just-- it's an unbelievable and really warming, warming experience. Another top of the list, Le Bernardin, one of my wife's favorite restaurants. Contra and Wildair, two unbelievable human beings, we know that the culinary driving forces-- Jeremiah and Fabian-- behind both of those restaurants. And what I appreciate about it the most is the freedom that they take in what they do, just on a day-to-day basis. They are hungry. They are driven, they always have been, and hopefully, always will be.
Quick down the rabbit hole, I'm down like in Chinatown.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah.
CLIFF CROOKS: For really, really just super bang-in flavors, I'm not going to call out one, because we did lose a couple of really great ones due to the pandemic. But one should one should go down to Chinatown and get lost for like, three days, and come back out with an appreciation for people. Because that's exactly what it is.
JAYMEE SIRE: Agreed. I couldn't agree more. That is one of my favorite places to explore, and like you said there's so many places down there. I mean, you could go every day for several months and still not experience everything that the area has to offer. Besides New York, what is your favorite food city?
CLIFF CROOKS: Oh, you know what? I'll go LA first over Chicago, and I'm not going to pick out one, because I'm going to hurt some feelings. But--
JAYMEE SIRE: OK, fair.
CLIFF CROOKS: LA's got it-- LA also has an incredible food scene, and it's one of those things where, you know, oh, East Coast or West Coast in terms of food and cuisine. Chicago, unbelievable. And Milwaukee is on the rise--
JAYMEE SIRE: Oh OK.
CLIFF CROOKS: -- as well, with some-- there's a lot of talent, a lot of talent.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JAYMEE SIRE: Next up, Cliff is giving us the inside scoop on how he got started as a chef.
I want to go back a little bit before Cliff, the culinary director, before Cliff the chef. What was it that initially sparked your interest in cooking?
CLIFF CROOKS: You know, it was-- truth be told, it was an accident.
JAYMEE SIRE: Really?
CLIFF CROOKS: Yeah. It wasn't-- I was studying exercise science and working in restaurants because everyone needs cash. I had been working in restaurants when I was in high school, and at one point, a restaurant I was working on, I was bartending, and it's like a slow Sunday service and the chef I was working with would go out on Saturday nights, as most chefs do after service, and get a little too toasty, and leaving one unable to function the next day.
And guests would start rolling in early because it's a Sunday, and no one's really eating late. And he's kind of semi passed out in this office that's right off of the line. And I'm like, "Hey, listen, I have three guests at the bar that I have an order in for the past 10 minutes." And he's like, "Oh, man," and I'm like, "All right. Why don't you just tell me?" It was like, the small things. Like, why don't you just tell me what's in it, and I'll just bring it to you.
So right off of this line, he's kind of half assed out in a chair, and I'm there literally putting in a pan and doing what he's saying, and like, I bring it to him, and you know, first he was like, "No, no, no. Start all over again." And then I got it to a point where, to this day, and because I'm still in touch with the chef, we don't know if it was actually great, or if it was like, all right, I got to get him out of here now--
JAYMEE SIRE: [LAUGHTER]
CLIFF CROOKS: -- and this is passable, but that's when it started for me. That's how I got the itch. The owner subsequently found out about a week later, was not too thrilled, but was like, "Hey, listen, is this something you really want to do?" And I'm like, "Yeah, it is." He's like, "OK, great. You're going to come and work with me." So I went over to his other restaurant, and work with him for months. Family-owned restaurant, he had two restaurants at the time. So I'm in the kitchen like, learning to make pasta with his uncle, and this is way, way, way, way, way back in the day. So yeah, there's this kid who absolutely knew nothing, with an opportunity to see, look, and taste, and everyone had a lot of patience for what had to be my stupidity at the time, but, yeah.
JAYMEE SIRE: But it worked out, I would say. I know you also spend some time in Taiwan, when you were younger. How much did that influence just your culinary point of view?
CLIFF CROOKS: If you ask me then, I wouldn't have been able to answer that question. Now, just my appreciation for culture. And when I was younger, it was very, very different. And I absolutely loved it when my parents told us that, "Hey listen--" we were gone for almost five years, and like, "Hey listen, we're moving back to the States." I definitely chucked a tantrum. I was like, "No, absolutely not. I love it here. I don't want to move. I don't want to go back." It definitely, as I got older, I still hearken back to a lot of the flavor memories that I have from being a kid, and being there. It's very, very near and dear to my heart.
JAYMEE SIRE: How would you describe your personal cooking style?
CLIFF CROOKS: Clean where applicable. I'm not-- I don't like over-- anything too fussy. I wanted to taste like what it is, with a dash of something that there's no way in heck you could absolutely do yourself at home because why would you be ordering it from me?
JAYMEE SIRE: That's a good point, because, yeah. If you can do it at home, why pay the premium in a restaurant?
CLIFF CROOKS: It's a go out, right?
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah, exactly. I'm curious to know if you had watched Food Network when you were kind of up and coming? And the second part of that question, if you ever imagined that you would be part of the Food Network family as you have become?
CLIFF CROOKS: I've very loosely watched Food Network. Food Network wasn't the same when I was early teens, as it was when I was, let's say, high school, college. That's when I really started watching Food Network. Food Network me before was watching my Nana cook, and really just bothering her all day, and asking her, and being able to ask her way too many questions, retaining absolutely nothing, but just being that kid in the kitchen and surrounded by women who could just cook their butts off. As I got older, and then really like realize what Food Network was, like, all the chefs on Food Network at the time are, and still like, demigods, just like, awesome, this is so cool.
Could I ever have imagined? Absolutely not. There's no way I would have imagined that would be in the presence of, and so close to, so many amazing chefs.
JAYMEE SIRE: Well, now that you are part of the family, what is your favorite part about being in that network of chefs that you speak so highly of?
CLIFF CROOKS: That somehow, they still tolerate me. Without me--
JAYMEE SIRE: Oh, stop.
CLIFF CROOKS: Without me being, I'm always upfront and honest, sometimes to a fault. They would admit, but I don't know everything. And being able to again be surrounded by people who also probably don't know everything, especially in this world, know a lot more-- There's also that point where no one, no one on Food Network before looked like I do. So I am often reminded of it, and I'm like, OK, whatever. And then I stop and I'm like, oh wait. Yeah, I guess you're right. The best part about it now is other people who do look like me going, wait a minute, OK, so there is a chance, and it's not easy. I couldn't tell someone exactly how to do it, because I don't exactly know myself. I know I've worked hard. I've done all of the necessary things personally within myself to be a better person than I was before. And the rest of it's dumb luck.
JAYMEE SIRE: [LAUGHTER]
CLIFF CROOKS: Dumb luck plays its way into a lot of things. Dumb luck is a lot of what restaurants are. People are incredibly talented, and very well-funded, and it just doesn't work. I got lucky. That's the-- it's the truth. I somehow have an ability to relay information in a way that people respond to, and in a positive way. And everyone else around me seems to be OK with it. So I just keep doing it.
JAYMEE SIRE: That's the secret, just keep doing it. But no, I mean, I think, I mean, you bring up a great point. Representation is so important. The thought that there might be a kid out there just like you were in high school, working in a restaurant, looking at you, and thinking to themselves, like, "I can do that." What does that mean to you?
CLIFF CROOKS: Everything. It means everything. Having someone succeed, a, and then be the best possible version that they want to be of themselves. If I can have a hand in that, then, that's it.
JAYMEE SIRE: That's it.
CLIFF CROOKS: I'm good.
JAYMEE SIRE: Well, I think that expertise, that honesty, that inspiration, I think those are all reasons why you are the perfect host and mentor for Chef Boot Camp, the Food Network show where you basically put struggling restaurant chefs through a series of challenges, you're testing their culinary skills. They're trying to prove that they have the talent to succeed. What is your approach to working with these chefs and giving them the constructive feedback that they really need to grow and improve on their skills?
CLIFF CROOKS: Blatant honesty. That's the key. That's all, and again, it's not a secret. The approach is having someone be as straightforward with you as possible to get you from point A to point B without sugarcoating it. And I'm not here to-- like, I would love to be everyone's friend, but your position is on the line, which means that your income is on the line. So then your family's livelihood is on the line, the livelihood of the restaurant owner that is not only paying your salary, but then funding the rest of the lunacy that goes along with running a restaurant, all that's on the line.
So everything is absolutely interconnected. So if we all can agree, all right, from the point, let's all get on the same page. This is why you're here, and we're going to deep dive into what the issues are, so that we could speed up the process, and get them fixed at the end of the day. I'm not a miracle worker. It really-- it takes that individual really buying into why they are there, and what I'm telling them, in order for them to have a successful journey through Boot Camp. Without that, it's going to be rough.
It's definitely going to be rough, but then again, such is life. It's not taking someone who is a home cook and turning them into like Joel Robuchon by the end of a three-day camp, but it's taking them from where they were and whether it's adjusting their attitude-- because at the end of the day, we all need a smack in the butt at no matter what level we are in life, sometimes. Taking them from that, and moving them along the line of, "OK, great, maybe I didn't realize this about myself," a, or "Wow, I need to kind of keep my mouth shut, and really focus more on what I'm doing, and then I can be more successful," or whatever the case may be, it's about the chefs.
JAYMEE SIRE: And most of these chefs are on the show because their own restaurant, you know, nominated them for needing to improve in some way. I mean, that's kind of rough. I mean, you mentioned your brutal honesty, I mean, what's their attitude and how receptive are they to the coaching?
CLIFF CROOKS: You know, some are more receptive than others. You get chefs that are like, "OK, this is an opportunity for me to be better," which is where I would love everyone to be, when they come in, and then some are like, "You know what? I really don't give a crap what you're going to tell me. I know I'm good because everyone tells me I'm good." Well, the world is not an easy place, and all of our parents love us and it's like your mom or your dad telling you that you are really handsome, or you are really beautiful. Parents lie.
JAYMEE SIRE: [LAUGHTER]
CLIFF CROOKS: So I'm not here to lie and tell you that you are great when you are not great. I will tell you, you can be 100% better because I believe I can make anyone better. You have to do some work in order for that to happen.
JAYMEE SIRE: I mean, does it get tense at all? I mean, on camera--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
CLIFF CROOKS: Absolutely.
JAYMEE SIRE: How do you handle that?
CLIFF CROOKS: Absolutely it gets tense because it's emotion, and it should be emotional and it should be tense because it's not a game. The best part about doing this show is for some reason, Food Network allows me just to be myself. There are no scripts. It's not hey, say this, or get someone to do this. It is life as it happens, which is awesome, and with that, people are going to get tight. They're going to get upset, and someone's want to tell-- someone is inevitably going to want to tell me to go scratch, which is fine because that's not really anger, that's emotion. And the emotion is coming from, I've obviously hit a nerve. And I'm not going to beat on that nerve, I'm not trying to make you feel bad about yourself, but let's realize it, figure out why, and figure out what your trigger points are.
But I'm going to press it because I want it-- because I want to expedite the process. Because the only way to get you to move past where you are right now is to realize why in the world are you like this?
[LAUGHTER]
Why are you so resistant? It should be emotional. There isn't a day where something doesn't go wrong in restaurants for me, because that's one of the fun things about running restaurants. A day does not come where everything is 100%, and where emotion is not tied into some aspect of my day, personally. And I'm not just talking about at home, I'm talking about work. And it's not a overwhelming feeling of emotion, or anything bad, but I do feel very, very strongly about a lot of things. And a lot of those things are related to people.
Again, we're going back to the human element of running restaurants on a day-to-day basis. It's because I want people to be as good as they can be, and there is a way to do it. I'm not a yeller or I'm not a screamer, if anything, I take the opposite route, where I'll talk to you in this cadence and I use my hands a lot when I talk. But if I'm displeased with something, I do get a lot quieter, and the cadence in my voice changes, and that just lets you know that now you need to listen more intently, and whatever comes after, me slowing down is definitely important, and this is what you need to listen to because these are your opportunity areas.
JAYMEE SIRE: What is the biggest mistake that you see these restaurant chefs making in general?
CLIFF CROOKS: I don't think there is-- I don't think there's one common thread issue. I think it's chefs losing themselves somehow in what can be very monotonous at times, and getting focused more on, "I just want to cook." Well, while cooking is uber, uber important, it's a component within what your total duty is. And then some chefs just want to do everything else other than cook, and then forget that you need to watch your quality, but then in order to watch your quality, and know someone's doing it correctly, you need to do it better than anyone else that works for you. So that gets lost.
And there's the owner component where it's, "Oh, I have someone back there to handle it. And I don't need to manage it." But you're paying that person. So it's like having an accountant that uses crayons when they do your taxes. You know, like, well, OK, let's look at the body of work that you're paying for. And then realize, are you OK with this? Is this mediocrity to you? OK, now how are we going to fix it? And then having that conversation gets really difficult. It's a hundred times more difficult when it's family either in the back, or there's a son or daughter running the kitchen, or running the front, and mom or dad or in the back, or vice versa. It gets pretty hairy. It gets pretty hairy.
JAYMEE SIRE: It's challenging, for sure. And I know you faced a new challenge when you recently competed on Tournament of Champions this past season. You went up against Tiffani Faison. This is probably the most talked about show on the podcast, for good reason, because it's full of complicated challenges. You've got the upsets, you've got the competition, the sports aspect. How is your personal experience on that show?
CLIFF CROOKS: Oh, it's fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. It is. It's a sport.
JAYMEE SIRE: It is.
CLIFF CROOKS: It's a sport. You have to be ready to play. There's no training, per se. It's a sport that is 80% mental. The movement is one thing, and it's 80% mental, and 20% speed and accuracy. And in that 80% mental, it's knowing how to play the game properly. Going up against Tiffani who is-- I mean, Tiffani is crazy talented, ridiculously talented. But we weren't competing against each other. We were competing against ourselves. And happened to be cooking on the other side of the other person.
JAYMEE SIRE: Is it the toughest competition show out there, you think?
CLIFF CROOKS: Hands down, yeah. There's no--
JAYMEE SIRE: [LAUGHTER]
CLIFF CROOKS: It is, because it's not just straight cooking.
JAYMEE SIRE: And you have the randomizer in play.
CLIFF CROOKS: That's the worst, that's the worst creation. I mean it'll mess you up.
JAYMEE SIRE: What's your what's your randomizer kryptonite?
CLIFF CROOKS: I don't know. It's a very good question, only because it does change. And if you thought something you didn't want was up there, they've now inserted something secretly that you really, really don't want, that actually trumps whatever that was. They do a great job with a horrible, horrible piece of equipment. It's really unbelievable. Like, really unbelievable. Like, I can't express-- I can't express enough how horrible it is.
JAYMEE SIRE: You have nightmares. No, that's a good point. It's probably a good idea not to say what your kryptonite is, because you know if you go back on Tournament of Champions, that will 100% be on the wheel when it's your turn.
CLIFF CROOKS: It's like--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
CLIFF CROOKS: Because then, it turns into-- it's like manifest destiny. Like, I don't want-- like, a hot water bath and like, a roll of duct tape, and like, all of a sudden, you'll spin it and it's like, oh, my goodness. Like, how did this happen? It's exactly what I thought.
JAYMEE SIRE: No. That's a good strategy. No. So we've seen you compete, we've seen you also as a judge on Worst Cooks in America. What is your favorite part about judging that show?
CLIFF CROOKS: The fact that-- judging Worst Cooks, the best thing about it is the fact that they're still called worst cooks. Because whatever they're presenting in that final judging round, it's actually very, very good. And don't get me wrong. Like, we can all sit and nitpick about almost anything. But what they're able to accomplish with these worst cooks from start to finish is really, really amazing. Really amazing, and the quality of food is-- I mean, completely-- I mean, it'll blow you away. You're eating it with the intent to nitpick, and then you're like, unless it's really bad and that's just how life is sometimes, you can make something a million times, and then, it's like, I don't know what happened today, but it's been very, very good.
JAYMEE SIRE: You're also a judge on Battle of the Brothers. I still-- as good as you say that judging Worst Cooks is at the end, I would have to imagine, it's quite a different judging experience on Battle of the Brothers.
CLIFF CROOKS: Oh it's like night and day, especially because you get to see the complete arc, you know, judging Worst Cooks, it's blind. Right? So you come in, and when you, at home, see the different episodes leading up until the end, as a judge, you're not a part of any of that. You're there solely for that final taste. Battle of the Brothers was pretty dope, because you get to see-- you get to see the complete line in everyone's story and how they move through, and working with Michael, and working with Brian, and these chefs pick up a lot of different tips-- if they're smart-- very quickly, and use these tools throughout the preceding rounds.
They've had some really good food. Look, the Voltaggio brothers, or the Voltaggio brothers, I mean there's no--
[LAUGHTER]
I could be on a desert island with the two of them, and not worry about eating because I know--
[LAUGHTER]
Something's going to--
JAYMEE SIRE: They're just going to whip something up. Yeah.
CLIFF CROOKS: Yeah, exactly. Exactly, and it's going to be great. Two completely different styles but both are really, really exceptional.
JAYMEE SIRE: Well this has been so much fun, but we do have to wrap things up. So I'm going to finish off with some rapid fire questions, and then we have one question that we ask all of our guests here on Food Network Obsessed. So I will start with the rapid fire. Moment you are most proud of in your culinary career?
CLIFF CROOKS: Oh, one particular? Watching cooks become sous chefs, and become chefs, and then going off and leaving, and flying out of the nest, and still keeping in touch with them, and watching their careers become as fruitful as they would want them to be.
JAYMEE SIRE: Dish you crave most often.
CLIFF CROOKS: Ice cream.
JAYMEE SIRE: Hmm, what flavor?
CLIFF CROOKS: Anything, that's got goodies in it. Nothing chewy, so no gummy bears, or like, hard candies, but I like anything else.
JAYMEE SIRE: Anything else. OK, it's very broad. I like it. Worst thing you have ever cooked?
CLIFF CROOKS: I don't know if I could pick one. Probably something-- I mean the last thing, it was definitely something I made at home. Oh my goodness, no, so I made paella at home and went through this whole really chef-driven process of making the stock, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? And my wife's family is from Spain, and so, of course, they were, you know, paella-- it's like making something for really the wrong crowd.
JAYMEE SIRE: [INAUDIBLE]
CLIFF CROOKS: And it was good, but I've been feeling like, you know what [INAUDIBLE], I'd be like, hey, it's OK, and I'm like, what do you mean, it's like, what's not OK about it? And it was too much saffron, and they're like, if there was this much seafood in any paella in Spain, no one would eat it. Which is the complete opposite of what people normally want when they get paella in my mind.
JAYMEE SIRE: [LAUGHTER]
CLIFF CROOKS: It honestly just-- I mean, it was like, yeah. It was OK. There actually-- there have been a lot of times when like, I'll go to make something, and I'm like, wait, can I cook? Like I don't know. [INAUDIBLE] like, I do this for a living. Actually there are a lot of times at home where I cook, and I'm like, wait, like I can do this all day every day, but on a Sunday at home, I'm like the worst cook ever. And I'm like, ugh, yeah.
JAYMEE SIRE: I mean, sometimes you just have to-- you can't be on all the time.
CLIFF CROOKS: Yeah, I know.
JAYMEE SIRE: That's what it is.
CLIFF CROOKS: Things happen, that's life.
JAYMEE SIRE: What music do you listen to while you're cooking?
CLIFF CROOKS: Lots.
JAYMEE SIRE: [LAUGHTER]
CLIFF CROOKS: Lots. I'm partial to metal.
JAYMEE SIRE: OK. Oh really? OK.
CLIFF CROOKS: Yeah, we'll leave it at that.
JAYMEE SIRE: OK.
CLIFF CROOKS: We'll leave it at that.
JAYMEE SIRE: We'll go with that. Cleanup as you cook, or clean up when you're all done?
CLIFF CROOKS: At work 100%, you know, and it's not just setting the example, but at work, definitely clean as I go. At home, I'm probably a mess. I use way too many things, and this is obviously I'm quoting my wife here. I use way too many things. And if I'm cooking at home, there's probably a cocktail in my hand. So I'm really not looking forward to cleaning, and then I leave it until the end. And that's one of those do I say, not as I do when I'm home moments.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yes, for sure. OK, final rapid fire question. Favorite takeout order?
CLIFF CROOKS: Thai, Pad [INAUDIBLE].
JAYMEE SIRE: OK.
CLIFF CROOKS: Yeah.
JAYMEE SIRE: I like that one. So our final question, we ask everybody this final question on Food Network Obsessed, so menu for your perfect food day. So we're talking breakfast, lunch, dinner, dessert. You can cook, somebody else can be cooking for you, you can spend as much money as you want, you can travel wherever in between meals. So basically there's no rules, just we want to know breakfast, lunch, dinner and dessert?
CLIFF CROOKS: Champs and oyster omelet.
JAYMEE SIRE: Oh.
CLIFF CROOKS: Definitely want to go get ice cream, I definitely want ice cream as a snack before lunch.
JAYMEE SIRE: OK. [LAUGHTER] I like that, mid-morning snack of ice cream.
CLIFF CROOKS: Go for a walk so I can make room for a big-- I definitely want a whole fish for lunch. Really, really-- like super, super simple with lots of sauces and lots of just like green, raw components. Dinner, Sicilian. Pepperoni.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yes. Anywhere in particular?
CLIFF CROOKS: Ha ha. No. Not going to call it out.
JAYMEE SIRE: OK.
CLIFF CROOKS: No, I'm not going to say-- I'm not going to say one specific.
JAYMEE SIRE: But there's lots to choose from in New York, for sure.
CLIFF CROOKS: Yes. Yes.
JAYMEE SIRE: [LAUGHTER]
CLIFF CROOKS: Yes.
JAYMEE SIRE: [LAUGHTER] Are you doing like, ice cream again for dessert, or is there something else?
CLIFF CROOKS: No, so second dinner, I probably want two slices--
JAYMEE SIRE: Oh, second dinner.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
CLIFF CROOKS: -- going in. I really want two slices of Sicilian, and then I want pork buns.
JAYMEE SIRE: Oh, all right. I like that. I like that combo.
CLIFF CROOKS: No second ice cream. I'll finish them off with cookies.
JAYMEE SIRE: OK, all right. Chocolate chip, or something else?
CLIFF CROOKS: Anything round or--
JAYMEE SIRE: [LAUGHTER] Anything round and baked with sugar in it?
CLIFF CROOKS: Yeah, I am not a cookie highbrow.
JAYMEE SIRE: OK.
CLIFF CROOKS: Yes, I want sugar, and in form, that's really what I'm after.
JAYMEE SIRE: OK, I think, I mean, I think that sounds perfect. I mean, it's perfect to you, and that's the most important thing. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat. This has been a blast, and continued success in your Food Network career.
CLIFF CROOKS: Thank you, Jaymee, I appreciate it.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JAYMEE SIRE: Such a great time getting to know Cliff a little bit more intimately. There are some days that I feel like I need a Chef Boot Camp myself. You can catch Cliff at the judges table on Battle of the Brothers and more on Discovery+.
As always, thanks so much for listening, and make sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss a thing. And if you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to rate and review. We do love it when you do that. That's it for now. We'll catch you foodies next Friday on Food Network Obsessed.