Kwame Onwuachi shares the wisdom he has gained and lessons learned on his journey to becoming an award-winning chef.
Kwame Onwuachi shares the wisdom he has gained and lessons learned on his journey to becoming an award-winning chef. He jokingly talks about becoming the first employee of his mother’s catering company at just five years old and how her hard work keeps him inspired. Kwame tells the story of how his mother sent him on a two week trip to Nigeria that turned into two years and how those formative experiences shaped his perspective and appreciation for food. He talks about his fierce tenacity and how he approaches every experience like it’s the first time. He reveals the reason he decided to attend culinary school and the entrepreneurial way he paid for tuition. Kwame shares his thoughts on what it means to be a leader and cultivate culture in his kitchens and how he persevered through the disappointment of his first restaurant closing. He talks about how important it is to pause and celebrate your achievements and how it felt to be recognized as a James Beard award winner. Kwame shares the full circle story of sleeping on the green room floor of Chopped, hoping to film, and how it felt to finally be a judge on the show.
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Find episode transcript here: https://food-network-obsessed.simplecast.com/episodes/kwame-onwuachi-on-approaching-life-like-the-first-time-every-time
[MUSIC PLAYING] JAYMEE SIRE: Hello, hello, and welcome to Food Network Obsessed. This is the podcast where we dish on all things Food Network with your favorite Food Network stars. I'm your host Jaymee Sire. And today we have an award-winning chef on the podcast to talk about his dynamic and winding path to incredible success. The prevailing character trait that has gotten him there and what it means to be a leader. He's a chef, author, James Beard Award winner, executive producer at Food & Wine magazine, and a newly minted judge on Chopped, it's Kwame Onwuachi.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Kwame, welcome to the podcast. I mean, your story is so layered, so inspiring. I feel like you've lived so many lives already just by your early 30s. I guess first of all when you look back on your journey so far, what would you say is the prevailing character trait that you possess that has propelled you forward to where you are today?
KWAME ONWUACHI: I would say, without a doubt, tenacity. Just continuing to keep going under any circumstance, whether that's success, whether that's perceived failure. It's just to keep going because life in and of itself is such a gift. And to not continue would be a disservice to that present that has been given to you.
JAYMEE SIRE: That tenacity that you speak of, do you feel like that is something that is innate, or is that something you had to learn and develop over time?
KWAME ONWUACHI: It was something that was innate. I think, it definitely was developed over a period of time but continuing to push forward has always been something that I embraced. It was something that was taught to me, something that was instilled in me at a very young age. So yeah, it's something that lives inside of me and it's one of my favorite traits about me.
JAYMEE SIRE: Another trait about you is just the way food has been part of your journey, pretty much every step of the way. You went from helping your mom in the kitchen at just five years old. You cooked on a ship in the Gulf, in fine dining kitchens across the country. When did you know that food would be that through-line in your story?
KWAME ONWUACHI: I would say, about when I was 20 years old. I had started a catering company. I had to do this event that I had talked my way into. I walked into the store and to Soho and struck up a conversation with the store clerk, who happened to be the owner of the store. And the store had just opened and she was talking about this launch part. And I was like, are you excited about the party? And she was like, I can't wait for the party. The only thing I'm missing is a caterer. And at that moment, I didn't really have a catering company. I work with my mom. But at that moment, I needed to pay rent.
[LAUGHTER]
And I was like, you never asked me what I did. And she's like, what do you do? I was like, I'm a caterer. Look at how the universe lines up. And she asked me how old I was and I told her that was irrelevant. And--
[LAUGHS]
I then went on to do this catering event for her. But before that, she asked me to do these miniature cheesecakes and to do a tasting the next day. So I stayed up all night making these cheesecakes. And I didn't have any-- I didn't really have any music playing. I wasn't talking to anyone. I was literally up for like 12 hours straight trying to perfect this cheesecake. And it was at that moment that I knew I could do this for the rest of my life. I wasn't getting paid for this particular endeavor. You know, I said I would do it pro bono just to see, and maybe become the official caterer of the store. I wasn't doing it for any fame. You know, I wasn't-- I was doing it just because I genuinely loved to do it. And in that moment, I realized that I found my passion.
JAYMEE SIRE: I can just imagine you're in a New York apartment like up all night, those kitchens are not necessarily always, always the best.
KWAME ONWUACHI: Sheet trays stacked everywhere, a tiny little oven. It was a sight to see for sure. I would love to be a fly on the wall.
JAYMEE SIRE: Same. Well, let's take it back to the younger years, the formative food experiences. You know at five years old, you're helping your mom in the kitchen. As you mentioned, you owned a catering company just on the spot. Did you always enjoy being around food or did it feel like chores up until that moment at 20 years old that you just spoke of?
KWAME ONWUACHI: Oh, I loved it. I loved everything about food. I love the process of getting raw material and turning it into something edible and beautiful and delicious and full of soul and artistry. It was something that was a direct life raft to my mom. It was a way that I could spend time with her because most of the time, she was cooking, whether it was for us or it was for patrons outside of the house. So for me, it was a way to spend time with my family. And it was something that my family was always extremely proud of. We come from a long line of chefs and restaurateurs, so you have to know how to make at least one dish in our fam. You got to pull up to the cookout with something.
[LAUGHS]
You can't come with cups. You can't come with plates. You have to come with something that adds to it. So for me, it was a rite of passage, like learning how to cook, learning how to build flavors, learning how to season my food. And that chore turned into a hobby and that hobby turned into a passion.
JAYMEE SIRE: I'm curious. What is the first dish that you learned to cook, that you learned to perfect to bring to the cookout?
KWAME ONWUACHI: You don't bring scrambled eggs to a cookout.
[LAUGHS]
But that is the first dish that I learned to prepare.
JAYMEE SIRE: OK.
KWAME ONWUACHI: My mom taught me how to make eggs. But from there, it was definitely crowd-pleaser things, like baby back ribs, smoked. We used to smoke them on the fire escape on the fifth floor in New York City. You know, jerk chicken wings. We used to also smoke those on a little tiny Weber grill. And my mom showed me the art of like carmelizing meat properly and getting that right layer of brown, that deep brown on each individual piece of meat and giving that care and loving to it.
So I learned a lot of dishes, and I also learned a lot of the fundamentals of cooking from her because my family is Creole, you know. And we have a lot of French elements in our dish. So I learned the basis of a lot of different cuisines through my mom at a very, very young age.
JAYMEE SIRE: As you've now gotten older, also balancing a million things yourself, do you think back to those times and wonder how your mom was making it all happen?
KWAME ONWUACHI: Yes, absolutely. I'm glad you brought that up because people ask me, how do you stay inspired and how do you keep going. And I just think back to my mom, you know. She had two kids in the '90s trying to make a way while still pursuing her passion. Whenever I think I have it tough, I don't have it that tough. That's really what gives me inspiration when I need to find something to keep pushing and keep going and go a little further and do another hour. I think about her and she had no choice. So for me, I have no choice but to keep going. I have no choice but to dig deep and to continue to find that inspiration around every corner.
JAYMEE SIRE: I know when you were 10, she sent you to live with some relatives in Nigeria as apparently, you were you're misbehaving in school a bit and to your surprise, you ended up being there for two years. First of all, what was her primary purpose for kind of thrusting you into that experience?
KWAME ONWUACHI: You know, I was acting up. And I don't think it was in ways that were super mischievous or criminal even. It was just that she saw the vision of where it could go, of how my mind was working at a young age, which is easy. It's easy to veer off on the wrong path where I grew up. So she wanted to nip that in the bud. She told me I was only going for two weeks, though. I want to put that--
JAYMEE SIRE: Really?
KWAME ONWUACHI: --out there. Yes. So I was like, OK, this is cool. A two-week little vacation in Nigeria like I'm about this. This is great. And then two months went by and I was just like, school's about to start, September. And she was like, yeah, you're not coming home to learn respect. Yeah, and that was really a hard pill to swallow at the time because those are formative years, you know. I was like 10 years old. I was there from 10 to 12. But I wouldn't trade it for the world. It taught me so much. It gave me such foundation for just being a good human being for learning how the rest of the world lives and what we take for granted here.
JAYMEE SIRE: How did those two years really mold your point of view from where you were when you got there to where you were when you left and to who you are now?
KWAME ONWUACHI: I think just basic human rights, it instilled in me. There was no running warm water, that was no running water period, there was no electricity. We had to raise our own livestock. For me, it directly correlated to my career path as well. But it just-- it showed me how to be a better human being and a citizen of the Earth and to really appreciate the things we have here. Yeah, it was quite inspiring but also it gave me a spark of creativity.
You take an American kid and throw them into an environment where they don't have electricity or running water and they have to create their own games to get by, I don't know. I think that's a recipe for success for everyone. I think everyone should do this. They say everyone should work in the service industry, at least one time. Everyone should live in a country that does not have the same luxuries that America has at least once. And it'll give you a greater perspective and a greater appreciation for what we have here.
JAYMEE SIRE: What about the food experiences during your time there? Do you recall anything significant that really was impactful? I know you said that you're raising your own livestock and that kind of thing. What do you remember about those food experiences there?
KWAME ONWUACHI: Oh, man. For me, the food, like the cooked food, the art of it, it was so involved. It showed me at least the refinement that went into West African cooking and Nigerian cooking. It would start in the daytime, you know, of killing these animals, of skinning them, roasting them. Then it would start with the sauce making. They would go to the palm trees and cut down the palm fruit and then make palm oil with that.
And then start cooking their food and layering these flavors. All of the different things that went in them took months to make, whether it was a smoked and dried crayfish or the stock fish that was dried out, or the different fermented beans that went into different specific dishes. It showed me that this food is as refined as anything that you see in any other culture if not more. And that's where I gain this deep respect for these dishes.
JAYMEE SIRE: What does it mean to you now to be able to incorporate those dishes, those techniques into everything that you're doing?
KWAME ONWUACHI: It means everything. It means everything. I mean, I remember the first time I served fufu and stew at my restaurant on [? Gita ?] [? Grand ?] plates, these fine porcelain plates, and I cried. I cried seeing it come off the pass and going into the dining room because for so long, this food has been kept concealed in the mom-and-pop shops and not given a voice. They're inaudible and are not able to speak. Their truth only showed that this food is not as easy as step one, two, three. And I was able to plate it, present it beautifully, serve it, and charge money for it. And I felt the pride of my nation when that plate was walking, swinging out of the doors of the kitchen into the dining room.
JAYMEE SIRE: I feel like you kind of have this talent for identifying these opportunities to acquire resources that you need to get where you want. You took a chance to cook on a ship during the BP oil spill, you came back to New York City, you sold candy on the subway to fund that catering business. Where does that hustle and that fire in your belly come from?
KWAME ONWUACHI: The Bronx, baby.
[LAUGHS]
Growing up in the Bronx teach you how to hustle. I mean, I think just being in different scenarios my whole life, a little bit of being in the Bronx, a little bit of being a Nigeria, living in Louisiana, trying to always make away from myself but it really stems from believing in myself. I'm my own biggest cheerleader and it has to be that way because you can also be your worst critic. So if you're going to be a worst critic, you've got to balance it out with someone saying like, go you. All the time.
[LAUGHS]
And for me, that's what really keeps me taking these calculated risks. I'm always excited. I go into every failure with the same excitement.
[LAUGHS]
I work on every project whether it fails or wins. I'm excited about it. You know, like this is the next big thing because, for me, it is the next big thing. I have a mantra that every day is day one. You should go into every day like this is the first day, like how excited would you be. How excited were you and this was your first podcast. And I was the first person you were talking to. Why ever lose that excitement? That gusto, and that bravado, and that swagger that you have and it's your first time. And that's when it resonates with people much more.
JAYMEE SIRE: How do you not get discouraged though or bring that fire back to life when you do experience those failures that you spoke of?
KWAME ONWUACHI: Yeah, well, I do get discouraged. But I don't let that discouragement rule me. And we need to think of things as emotions, you know? Emotions come and go. Emotions past, you're going to have a good day. And you're going to have a bad day. But we can't dwell on that one negative thing just like we can't dwell on that one positive thing. Because you can still use fear for your benefit and use it as fuel. Fear is something that's a good thing. It made you like heightened, like back in the day, heightened senses that something was about to attack you so that you were able to be quick on your feet and escape that. But you don't continue to dwell on that fear once that thing is over with.
So I think, you just can be discouraged. Absolutely, yeah, but then prepare. And then prepare for the next battle because it's not over. And the journey is really the reward.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah. And part of that journey took you to culinary school. You talk about these calculated decisions and risks. What influenced that decision to go to school instead of just staying in the kitchens and kind of working your way through the stations and the ranks?
KWAME ONWUACHI: I knew at the time that I needed to take a step back in order to take a giant leap forward. And I wasn't going to be able to do that without-- for me, this is not for everyone, for me, I needed some formal training. I needed to see what was happening at the highest level of education for this particular craft. So then I can then put my own spin on it and do the things that I wanted to do. So I figured if I want to become the best, you know? I need to learn from the best. And the CIA is the best culinary school in the world, so I decided to go there to then learn.
JAYMEE SIRE: And then while you're going to school, you're also working in several fine dining establishments, environments. You generously talk about these experiences in your book, Notes from a Young Black Chef. How did these years shape your perspective on what it means to run a kitchen and more importantly, cultivate an environment that is inclusive and inviting?
KWAME ONWUACHI: Yeah. People always ask me about that, like how did you do all of these things at the same time? And I always say that idle time is a gift. So it was with idle time that I was able to really hone my craft so much and use that idle time for my advantage. And working in these kitchens, it taught me so much. It let me know where I stood against the best chefs in the world, which is, that's also a gift. I think if you want to do any craft, you need to do it at the highest level. You can actually see the person that is the best. I've worked with the best meat cooks in the world. I can be like, OK, there's only five, three Michelin Star restaurants in this city right now and I'm working at one of them. This is one of the three best meat cooks in this city.
What do I need to do to make my meat look like yours? OK, you need to sear like this. You need to leave it at the pan a little bit, don't touch it. Make sure your pan is smoking, you know? Season your meat after you sear it, so the liquid doesn't come out of it. You're able to really pick up on these habits if you're really paying attention. So I learned the art of cooking, like literally. I learned about leadership and how I want it to be and how I didn't want to be. I learned the business acumen of how to eliminate labor costs and food waste. So these are the things I picked up along the way. And these are the things that I was able to immediately impart into my own restaurant that I opened soon after I worked at these restaurants.
JAYMEE SIRE: What is the single most important role you feel that you have as a leader in these environments?
KWAME ONWUACHI: We wear so many hats. I would say, the single most important thing that I do is create the culture for the restaurant because I can hire somebody to do the numbers. I can hire someone to run a pass. I can hire someone to run a dining room. I can hire someone to operate the bar. But you cannot hire someone to instill your culture in what you want this restaurant to be and how you want people to talk and how you want people to walk and how you want people to behave and how you want people to engage. Those things are so important and it only comes by example. So you have to be there to instill that culture. So then that can trickle into the rest of the staff.
JAYMEE SIRE: Well, as you mentioned, you did open your own restaurant in 2016 after a stint on Top Chef in 2015, Shaw Bijou. It was an aspirational tasting menu, a much-anticipated opening. Unfortunately closed after just 11 weeks. I mean, I can't imagine the inner turmoil you must have felt at that time. How did you get through that?
KWAME ONWUACHI: It wasn't anything though, it was a pop-up. It's just a pop-up restaurant.
JAYMEE SIRE: I like that. I like that.
[LAUGHS]
Change the narrative.
KWAME ONWUACHI: Rewrite the history.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah, exactly.
KWAME ONWUACHI: Yeah, I mean I was devastated when it closed.
JAYMEE SIRE: Of course.
KWAME ONWUACHI: I just thought my career is over. I was so young and it was so public. I don't think people understand. When someone is in the public eye, especially at such a young age, they're still learning and growing. But they're just doing it under scrutiny and it's being recorded in real-time. It was heartbreaking but then I had to take a step back and be like, wait a minute, look of what you've accomplished and you're still only 23 years old. This isn't a failure. This is a learning experience. You have so much more time to do whatever you want to do, so you can boo-hoo for a certain period of time but you've got to pick yourself up and look in the mirror and remember who you are. That none of these singular things ever defined you.
You are in control of your own narrative. You have to keep going. As long as you are here, you've got to keep going. There are more people rooting for you than there are rooting for you to fail. So why don't you continue going and not let that be in vain? And that's what propelled me to continue pushing forward. And also, having a great group of people around me that sometimes believed in me even more than I believed in myself at certain periods of time, that would remind me of that.
JAYMEE SIRE: What did you learn during that time?
KWAME ONWUACHI: I learned so many things. But I learned to make sure that you have a good team because opening a restaurant or any business is like a marriage. There's going to be good parts and it's going to be bad parts but we've got to be willing to work through those things in order to have a really fruitful relationship and a successful business. Because I opened-- a lot of people ask me that, like, what did you learn? Did you--
[LAUGHS]
What did you figure out you needed to do? I don't know, man. I opened a restaurant. Six months later, that was one of the best restaurants in the world at the time. So it wasn't anything that was super incremental besides picking the right people around me to make sure that the vision was completed. And I was able to do that shortly after.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah, I mean, you definitely bounce back from that experience. You accepted an offer to run a restaurant in Washington DC that became Kith and Kin, where you served a menu inspired by your roots in Jamaica, Trinidad, Nigeria, Louisiana. What made you decide to pivot from what you envisioned for Shaw to the diaspora-inspired menu at Kith and Kin?
KWAME ONWUACHI: I let go of anger because I was angry that the restaurant had closed at first. I was full of like spite. And I wanted to show people, no, I can do this. And I was going to open up a very similar restaurant to Shaw Bijou once again. And then I thought, let me get rid of that emotion and really think about what would be meaningful. And there was a lot of things that were happening around me. I did an event for Questlove and cooked beef patties, you know? Like for the first time, everyone was really enjoying it. I was like noticing what I was cooking at home for myself. And it was like brown stew chicken and oxtail. It was like things that like, I need to comfort at that time because I was feeling so down.
And I thought, why don't I open a restaurant where my friends and family would like to eat, you know? Something that really highlights them. And I remember just typing that in Google, friends, and family. And then Kith and Kin popped up, which is old English our friends and family. And I knew that I had something at that point in time.
JAYMEE SIRE: And I imagine, I mean, it was a hotel restaurant so you have customers coming in from all walks of life, all over the world. How rewarding was it to share those foods? Like you said, they really told the story of who you are.
KWAME ONWUACHI: Oh, man. You have no idea. It was like-- it was a rainbow of people in the dining room every single night. I remember being so stressed out because I was operating-- I never even worked in a restaurant this big. It was 200 seats. It was breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Every single day, seven days a week, and it was stressful for me.
And when I would walk into the dining room and see Nigerian people so excited to see themselves reflected on in such an atmosphere in such a way that hasn't been done before, and seeing white people next to them asking the Nigerian table, how do you eat fufu? And like seeing Puerto Rican people seeing themselves in the food. Like in certain, seeing a part of themselves in certain aspects of the food because we're all connected at the end of the day, right? That's what kept me going that was like, OK, I can do another month. OK.
[LAUGHS]
I can get back in there. And that's what really kept me going.
JAYMEE SIRE: What was your favorite item on the menu there?
KWAME ONWUACHI: Probably the curried goat. It's one of my earliest food memories of being on my grandmother's hip. And there's roti with curried goat coming. And she popped it into my mouth and it was like an explosion of flavors. There's like 12 different spices and curry powder alone and then you add onions and green onions and garlic and ginger. It was like, it was so beautiful to be able to eat that any time I wanted.
JAYMEE SIRE: Was that her recipe or did you put your own spin on it?
KWAME ONWUACHI: I put my own spin on it, for sure. I made it my own.
[LAUGHS]
JAYMEE SIRE: As you have done many, many times with everything in your life. And that was a big year for you, 2019. You were named Best New Chef by Food & Wine Magazine, Esquire Chef of the Year, Rising Star Chef of the Year by the James Beard Foundation. I remember actually seeing you on the red carpet doing the red carpet show that year and remember being very inspired by your story. How did it feel to kind of finally received that recognition after working so hard and after the disappointments?
KWAME ONWUACHI: It felt really good. It was a moment that I had envisioned my entire professional career. I used to sneak into the James Beard Awards and sit in the rafters.
[LAUGHS]
And imagine my name and practice my James Beard Award speech. This is with like no real training or anything. I was just in there. To have it finally happen, it was pretty incredible. It was everything was moving in slow motion. I was really able to absorb that moment. And those moments like being in the green room, behind the curtain, and talking to all the other winners. It was just-- in words, I can't really put it into words. I also was so drained from anxiety that I went to sleep right after. I didn't go out and party. And I go to the James Beard Awards every year and I am partying. In this year, I had zero in me.
[LAUGHS]
I could only go to sleep, so it was a beautiful moment that I would cherish forever that I will never forget. And I'm so glad, I'm so honored to have been presented with those awards.
JAYMEE SIRE: Absolutely. When you reach those milestones as exhausted as you might have been at the time, I mean, are you able to celebrate maybe after you've gotten some sleep? Or are you still kind of like, all right, what's next? I got to keep grinding.
KWAME ONWUACHI: No, I celebrate these moments for sure with my loved ones. And then, we keep-- get up and keep going. It's important to celebrate yourself because there was so much work that went behind it and you kind of lose sight of that because it happened so far after. But we got to take a second to celebrate and really, really appreciate all of the fortune, you know? And all the gifts that we've been given.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JAYMEE SIRE: When we come back, Kwame tells us what to expect in his brand new cookbook and what it was like filming Chopped.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Well, I saw that you were recently celebrating your brand new first-ever cookbook, My America: Recipes from a Young Black Chef, which officially hit stores in May. What does it feel like to write and then now you're holding your first-ever cookbook?
KWAME ONWUACHI: It's surreal because it happened so long ago that I wrote it and it's finally in my hands. And then for me, I'm hyper-critical of everything I do, honestly. But it's such a beautiful book and it's also a book as much as it is a recipe book. There's so many stories woven in. You can really learn about all of these different ingredients and spices and proteins and produce so like, it's beautiful to see. And it also tells the story of me that hasn't really been told before.
JAYMEE SIRE: I mean, I know you had some recipes in each chapter of your memoir as well, do any of these make repeat appearances, or are these all brand new?
KWAME ONWUACHI: Oh, come on, man.
[LAUGHS]
I'm not repeating anything.
[LAUGHS]
This is all new stuff.
JAYMEE SIRE: You got to buy both-- you got to buy both of them, right?
KWAME ONWUACHI: Exactly. Exactly. No, it's all new stuff. It's all fresh. It shows the version of my America, you know? And what I grew up eating in America as a young child, recipes from the Caribbean, recipes from Africa, recipes from the South, recipes from Latin regions. So like growing up in New York, it's such a melting pot. And I wanted to show all of its glory.
JAYMEE SIRE: Your confidence is inspiring. And not just in the kitchen, you have other interests and passions as well. I know you've been acting lately. You were just named executive producer for Food & Wine magazine. How would you encourage someone to give themselves permission to step outside their comfort zone or the label of their job or role to pursue these other passions and interests that they might have?
KWAME ONWUACHI: I would say, think about when the ice cream truck rolled through your neighborhood. And that feeling you got, chase that feeling.
[LAUGHS]
And do anything that makes you feel even remotely close to that because that's where the magic happens, of chasing that metaphoric high of happiness, of true, unabashed, genuine happiness that isn't hurting anyone. Chase that. And I'm pretty sure you'll see so many different lanes open up for you of things that you've always wanted to do. And you don't have to be the best at something as soon as it happens, right? It's beautiful to see the progress of things that you're doing. So continue to chase that happiness, continue to get outside of your comfort zone, continue to suck at something, and see where that takes you. And I think it will blow your mind how talented you actually are.
JAYMEE SIRE: I know you were recently a judge on Chopped. But as I understand it from your Instagram, that was not your first experience with the show. Can you tell us about your time sleeping on the green room floor of Chopped?
KWAME ONWUACHI: I remember working at Per Se and at that time, it was legal for them not to pay you for working there. So I wasn't getting paid. I had my own apartment and I had to pay rent. So I actually applied for Chopped and they said, why don't you just like work as a backup chef? And in case one of the chefs mess up, then we will bring you on and we'll restart the show. So I would go with them, I would meet them all up, it was at Chelsea Market.
I remember we would meet at the Starbucks around the corner first, that was a meet-up point. And then we'd walk to Chelsea Market up to the studios. And I would be in the green room. And the green room was freezing, there was no heat. But it was before my shift started at Per Se at 11:00 AM, and the shift was around 11:00 AM to 1:00 AM, so it was a very long shift. And that was an early night.
So I would go home after the shift at Per Se, sleep for five hours, meet them at 6 o'clock in the morning, sleep in the green room. Because I-- after the first couple of times, I knew no one was really doing anything that egregious to get themselves off the show. So then I would just sleep in that green room on the floor, cuddled up in my winter jacket, and they would wake me up, then I would go to Per Se and cook. And I would pray every day that no one got hurt because call-outs were not a thing back then. You could not call out of work. You just didn't work there anymore.
If you call out, you might as well just not show up ever again. There was that integrity that if you chose this job, you knew the parameters, you also knew the consequences. I think people don't understand that working somewhere, it's a team. Like if you don't show up, we don't just have backup. This isn't a play. We don't have backups for every single character. It really affects everyone. You show up every day even if you don't really want to. So that was my time with Chopped. It's crazy that I'm now a judge on Chopped. It's a beautiful thing and I hope it inspires others so I just keep going. It doesn't matter how many nos you're getting. You just need that one yes and it could change your life.
JAYMEE SIRE: It's come full circle. I mean, what was that moment like just stepping on set as a judge on the other side of the table for the first time?
KWAME ONWUACHI: It was beautiful. I was in a really good place. I was doing a social media cleanse so I hadn't been on social media for a month. I had given up my smartphone so I only had a flip phone. I was reading books all the time. And I remember just I was reading a book in between takes and stuff. It was beautiful. My cousin was next to me, Tiffany Derry She's a chef in Texas. And it was just a beautiful moment. It was very surreal, very surreal, but also comfortable because I knew I would be there one day.
JAYMEE SIRE: How do you approach being a judge to the contestants and how do you frame your feedback to them?
KWAME ONWUACHI: My judgment is very direct. It's here's what was wrong with the dish, you know? I'm not cutting-- I'm not like every other judge doing the compliment sandwich. I either really love this thing or I don't and that's how I play it. It's like you're actually getting a real critique from me. If this thing is undercooked, it's undercooked. If the thing is cooked perfectly, it's cooked perfectly. And maybe I thought you were going to do something crazy and I didn't agree with it and then you prove me wrong, and I'm going to tell you about that. Because I've been in their shoes, you know? I've competed on these shows.
And I want the real. I don't want the fake or the fluff and I know viewers want that too. And there's plenty of other judges to do that stuff. I'm on that show for a reason so I want to be myself all the time.
JAYMEE SIRE: If you could create a Chopped basket inspired by your life story, what would be in it?
KWAME ONWUACHI: It would be sparkling water, sour patch watermelon, bacon, and foie gras.
[LAUGHTER]
JAYMEE SIRE: Wait, so what would you make with that now?
KWAME ONWUACHI: I would make a sour patch watermelon gas streak. I would like, put the bacon in liquid nitrogen and then put it in a food processor or Robot Coupe so it's a bacon powder. And then I would dust the foie gras on that and sear it in that bacon.
JAYMEE SIRE: OK.
KWAME ONWUACHI: You know what I mean?
JAYMEE SIRE: All right.
KWAME ONWUACHI: So I'd have that salty, brininess on the outside of the foie.
JAYMEE SIRE: And then a little sour, sweet and sour?
KWAME ONWUACHI: Yeah. And then the sparkling water. Because I got a lot of free time, I'd make a little cocktail.
JAYMEE SIRE: There you go.
KWAME ONWUACHI: With sparkling water. So that's what I would do.
JAYMEE SIRE: I love it. And when you're traveling, you know, filming for work or doing events or other things, do you try to explore what that city has to offer?
KWAME ONWUACHI: Always. And I eat where the people eat. I would eat where the blue-collar people eat because that's the real soul of the city. It's so important, you know? And I don't plan anymore. Back in the day when I travel, I would make sure I had every restaurant listed out. And now, I actually don't care. I'm not trying to eat at any restaurant that's like on any list. I'm trying to meet someone and say like, when I go to restaurants, I asked the front desk, like where should I eat? And they're like, oh, there's this restaurant. We can call to make your reservation. I'm like, where do you eat?
[LAUGHS]
On your lunch break. Where do you eat on your days off? That's where I want to go. I want to go to a place where there's no reservations. You have to know somebody to know that place even exists. Those are the places that excite me nowadays.
JAYMEE SIRE: Where are you going next?
KWAME ONWUACHI: Baltimore. Other than that, I'm going to Ethiopia for about two weeks.
JAYMEE SIRE: Oh, wow. Is that just for-- I mean, what's the--
KWAME ONWUACHI: It's just for a little break. And I want to go and see the land and see where everybody came from. And Ethiopian food has always been important to me and a big influence, so yeah, it's exciting for me.
JAYMEE SIRE: Look forward to following along on Instagram unless you decide to go on another cleanse, but I'm sure everybody would love to experience that through your eyes as well. This has been so fun and enlightening and inspirational talking to you. I'm going to finish things off with a little rapid-fire round and then we have one final question. All right, one thing you wish you knew when opening a restaurant.
KWAME ONWUACHI: The names of every food critic.
[LAUGHS]
JAYMEE SIRE: That's a good thing to know. Advice you would give your 10-year-old self?
KWAME ONWUACHI: Wipe the toilet seat after you pee.
[LAUGHS]
JAYMEE SIRE: Sure, everybody would appreciate that advice. Music that you usually have playing in the kitchen?
KWAME ONWUACHI: R&B and hip hop. Hip hop and R&B, always.
JAYMEE SIRE: Describe your sense of style.
KWAME ONWUACHI: Elite.
JAYMEE SIRE: I like that. Best meal you've ever had?
KWAME ONWUACHI: My mom's gumbo, easy.
JAYMEE SIRE: Key to a good dinner party?
KWAME ONWUACHI: Make sure the food is done before people arrive, so you are just heating it.
JAYMEE SIRE: I like that. Yeah, that's a good one. What is your superpower?
KWAME ONWUACHI: Believing in myself and manifestation. Manifestation is my-- that's my superpower.
JAYMEE SIRE: Final question. We ask everybody this same question. This is not rapid-fire so you can take as much time as you want. But basically, we just want to know what's on the menu for your perfect food day. So we want to hear, what are you eating for breakfast? What are you eating for lunch, dinner, dessert? Throw some snacks in if you want. There are no rules and you can time travel, you can have any chef cook for you, do whatever you want, basically. It's your day.
KWAME ONWUACHI: My perfect breakfast would be a black truffle egg custard from Per Se with my mom's Creole potatoes. And the most beautiful smoothie you've ever seen in your entire life, it's like sunshine. There's kale, there's broccoli, there's carrots, there's mangoes, there's bananas. It's made with oat milk. There are apples in it and nectarines. My lunch would be sushi from Sushi Ko in New York. All the omakase, delicious bites. You know, toro, maybe if they have firefly squid, and all the bellies, hamachi, salmon, everything. Different types of like, live king crab, all the goodness.
I would have a mid-day snack of tacos and it would be tripa and lengua and cabeza and chorizo. And then for dinner, it would be chicken wings and pork fried rice from Chinese takeout in New York.
JAYMEE SIRE: I love it.
KWAME ONWUACHI: With lots of duck sauce. And then for dessert, some Jeni's ice cream.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah.
KWAME ONWUACHI: And a slice of my sister's cheesecake.
JAYMEE SIRE: I love it. That is a perfect food day and again congratulations on all of your achievements, your accomplishments, and I'm sure much more to come in the life of Kwame. So thank you so much.
KWAME ONWUACHI: Thank you. I have a nail polish line dropping in a couple of days, y'all.
JAYMEE SIRE: OK.
KWAME ONWUACHI: So I'm excited.
JAYMEE SIRE: Look out for that, speaking of which. All right. So much going on constantly. I love it.
KWAME ONWUACHI: Love it, love it. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
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JAYMEE SIRE: A huge thank you to Kwame for sharing his story with us today, a true comeback kid who is here to stay. You can catch him on the new season of Chopped, Tuesdays at 9:00/8:00 Central on Food Network. As always, thanks so much for listening, and make sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss a thing. And if you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review. We love it when you do that. That's all for now. We'll catch you, foodies, next Friday.
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