Chef Mei Lin talks about her experience growing up in her parents’ Chinese restaurant and how being up-close-and-personal to their work shaped her culinary perspective.
Chef Mei Lin talks about her experience growing up in her parents’ Chinese restaurant and how being up-close-and-personal to their work shaped her culinary perspective. She shares her formative experiences in the kitchen working with The Voltaggio Brothers and Wolfgang Puck, her strategy for working your way up the ranks in the kitchen, and who her closest industry confidantes are today. Mei reveals the Southern inspiration behind her latest restaurant concept and the secret to perfect fried chicken before naming her must-have Asian pantry staples. Mei dives into her Food Network series, The Lunar New Year Menu, the symbolic foods that she remembers from her childhood and how she celebrates today in Los Angeles.
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Find episode transcript here: https://food-network-obsessed.simplecast.com/episodes/mei-lins-secret-to-crispy-chicken-her-must-have-asian-pantry-staples
JAYMEE SIRE: Hello, hello, and welcome to Food Network Obsessed. This is the podcast where we dish on all things Food Network with your favorite Food Network stars. I'm your host, Jaymee Sire.
And today, we have a Los Angeles-based chef to talk about growing up in her parents' Chinese restaurant, cutting her teeth with the Voltaggio brothers and her must have Asian pantry staples. She is an incredibly talented chef, owner of the new Szechuan hot fried chicken restaurant called Daybird and star of Food Network's The Lunar New Year Menu digital series, it's Mei Lin.
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Mei, welcome to the podcast. So happy to have you on. It is so clear that you are a dedicated person to your job and to your craft. And so I wanted to start off our chat by asking you, where does that work ethic come from?
MEI LIN: Honestly, it was pretty much like instilled in me at a very young age. I started working for my aunts and uncles. And at the age of eight, I would go to work with my dad every Saturday. It wasn't just going to work with my dad. It was going to work and kind of hanging out with my dad and seeing everything that he did on a daily basis and just kind of learning the ins and outs of the restaurant industry, I guess.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah, because your family owned a Chinese restaurant in Dearborn, Michigan, had immigrated to the United States--
MEI LIN: Uh-huh.
JAYMEE SIRE: --when you were very young. You remember just like hanging out with your dad. What else do you remember just about being in a kitchen at such a young age?
MEI LIN: Honestly, I thought it was the best thing ever. But also I just got pampered. We would be the first ones in there. My aunt would already be at the restaurant as well.
My go-to breakfast that she would make for me all the time is a BLT. That's my favorite sandwich ever to this day. But also just like a good BLT. And it's got to be iceberg lettuce, great tomatoes. And I know this is going to be a hot take, but I had it with Miracle Whip growing up. So Miracle Whip was kind of the thing on toasted one bread too, so.
JAYMEE SIRE: Of course. Yes.
MEI LIN: Yeah.
JAYMEE SIRE: The nostalgia, yeah--
MEI LIN: Exactly.
JAYMEE SIRE: --it comes back. Exactly. And I don't think most children kind of have that up close and personal experience with their parents' jobs and their workplace. I mean, what do you think you absorb during that time just in terms of what you're doing now?
MEI LIN: Honestly, I knew at a very young age that what my parents did for a living was just a lot of hard work. It's a lot of manual labor. It's being on your feet for 12-plus hours a day.
JAYMEE SIRE: I mean, how old were you when you decided like this is what I want to do?
MEI LIN: I was actually, I was going to college. It was my second year of college. And I just decided what I'm like, I'm not happy. I didn't really know what I wanted to do. It was just always kind of instilled to me, go to school to be a doctor or a lawyer.
And so I did pre-nursing. And so I just had a moment one day where I thought I'm like I don't even know if I can handle dealing with blood. And so I just have a minor freak out, like what am I going to do with my life? I'm already 21 years old. What am I going to do?
And one of my friends at the time was like, why don't you go to culinary school? And I'm like, wait, what? Like, yeah, you love cooking, and I think you should try it out. I'm like, interesting. OK.
Yeah. I dropped out of school pretty much the end of the week and enrolled into culinary school as soon as I did that. So the rest is history.
JAYMEE SIRE: What did you learn in culinary school that you didn't learn in your parents' restaurant?
MEI LIN: I mean, I went to culinary school, we learned all the French fundamentals of cooking, just all the different sauce work and just all the classical French dishes that you know today. The French brigade system, like how the kitchen works. It's all very, very relative. It's very similar in almost every single kitchen, so.
JAYMEE SIRE: We've had several chefs on the show, obviously. Some went to culinary school, some bypassed it in favor of just kind of getting right into the restaurant industry right away. What advice would you give to an aspiring chef based on your own experience?
MEI LIN: Honestly, I don't think that school is vital. The best thing to do is kind of read up on a lot of different things. If there's a style or something that piques your interest, you should study that. And go and stage at different restaurants until you find that place that you really like and really just learn from that chef. That's probably the best way to do it.
Not to say that culinary school doesn't help you out in any way. I just think that school in general these days is just super expensive and not everybody can afford that. So I think getting out there and just immersing yourself into the craft is the way to go.
JAYMEE SIRE: And you've worked with some very familiar, very big names in the industry. You cut your teeth at Wolfgang Puck Spago in Vegas and Michael Voltaggio's Ink in Los Angeles, as we had talked about. What do you recall about your time with some of these other notable chefs? And what did you learn from them?
MEI LIN: Yeah. Honestly, just putting yourself into it, just working, putting your head down and working. I think you get very far in life doing that. I mean, it's humbling. You just listen to the chefs, listen to what they have to say, do your work, and cut everything out. That's probably the best way to do it.
JAYMEE SIRE: And you've actually worked with both Voltaggio brothers who we actually had on the podcast together last year.
MEI LIN: Oh, maybe.
JAYMEE SIRE: From somebody that's worked with both of them, how are their approaches to running a kitchen similar, how are they different?
MEI LIN: I mean, the approach to running the kitchen is very much so similar. The ease of going from one kitchen to another was pretty easy in terms of it's things that you know. All the same standards, fundamentals. and the food. I can't say that the food is very similar. But obviously, it stems from one place.
And so once you know one brother style, you're going to know the other ones. It was a good transition for sure.
JAYMEE SIRE: What is your strategy for kind of working your way up, breaking the ranks in the kitchen, when you've been eyeing a position like sous chef?
MEI LIN: It's really just putting yourself out there and making sure that you work harder than everybody else. Obviously, you see someone next to you struggling and you have some free time, you definitely want to offer your help and help everybody out. And that's kind of how it was way back when.
It's just kind of showing up early, super early, and just getting everything done, helping others around you, and just kind of setting yourself up for success but also just being there for others.
JAYMEE SIRE: How important is it to kind of cultivate a community of chefs and mentors around you when you're kind of coming up like that?
MEI LIN: I think it's really important. You make those connections and you want to kind of build that community around you. I think more and more now, we need each other more than ever, helping everybody else out so they can sustain. We can only build everybody up to make sure that the industry remains. I think we're in a really tough time now, and that's all we can really do.
JAYMEE SIRE: Who are your closest confidants in the industry right now?
MEI LIN: You know, I have a chef named Jon Yao. I like to call him my son. He's in Los Angeles. He's reopening his restaurant Kato.
He's one of my best friends. And we just talk to each other about literally everything, what he's going through, what I'm going through. It's just kind of we can talk about anything. And I think that's really important to have someone like that in the industry, especially because they can relate.
JAYMEE SIRE: And you do have some exciting things going on right now, including opening your newest restaurant Daybird.
MEI LIN: Uh-huh.
JAYMEE SIRE: Can you kind of share the inspiration just behind the new concept and the menu?
MEI LIN: Well, it's a very simple menu. It's a Szechuan hot fried chicken concept. And of course, I'm sure you've seen a lot of Nashville hot chicken restaurants out there. It's slightly different in terms of the flavors. Fundamentals are the same.
I just remember going to Nashville for the first time and just kind of doing like a hot chicken eating tour and my mouth was just like blown out. We did it all in one day, which was--
JAYMEE SIRE: Oh my God
MEI LIN: --insanity.
JAYMEE SIRE: Wow.
MEI LIN: We literally jumped from one restaurant to the other. And of course, it just progressively got hotter and hotter and hotter. So it was pretty nuts.
JAYMEE SIRE: Which places did you go to in Nashville?
MEI LIN: We started with Hattie B's, went to Prince's, went to Bolton's. And honestly, Bolton's was like, I think that's like a sleeper hit because they actually have hot fried fish there as well. It's actually pretty surprising because I feel like they're mild just like they're hot. We really just stuck with medium all throughout.
I mean, everybody's heat levels are a lot different. And of course, all the different spices that they're using are different as well. And so I think it's really interesting how different everybody's is.
JAYMEE SIRE: What is the key to perfect, crispy chicken?
MEI LIN: For me, what I found was different starches. In my drudging mix, I have potato starch as well as corn starch, but it's the double fry.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah.
MEI LIN: That's really the secret.
JAYMEE SIRE: I mean, when you're in those initial stages of starting a restaurant, what does your brainstorming usually look like? Are you like a mood board person? Do you put notes in your phone? How do you kind of stay organized and keep focused?
MEI LIN: Definitely lots of notes in my phone. But that can get disorganized really quickly. In terms of designing the restaurant, it's a lot of Pinterest boards for sure and just kind of tacking on all the little nuances, the colors and the materials, just like the overall feel and look of the restaurant of how you want it. But then, obviously, the most important thing is the food.
JAYMEE SIRE: Uh-huh.
MEI LIN: Because at the end of the day, it's a takeout restaurant. So we didn't do anything crazy to the restaurant. It's just all about the food.
JAYMEE SIRE: And I know you did quite a bit of traveling before opening this restaurant.
MEI LIN: Uh-huh.
JAYMEE SIRE: You mentioned Nashville, tasting all the hot chicken. Did you know that you wanted to do a fried chicken concept, or was it the travels and trying different food around the country and different places that really inspired this menu?
MEI LIN: Honestly, it's a little bit of both. I did extensive amounts of traveling to Asia back in 2017, '18. I ate a lot of different things. And I guess the spice mix that really came to me, it was like the Szechuan hot chili mix. So I had a lot of numbing peppercorns, a lot of different chilies, and a little bit of different spices, including cumin and fennel.
And so I just kind of started playing around with my own spice mix. And that kind of just came to light, just kind of fusing those two things together, hot fried chicken. Obviously, everybody loves fried chicken. Yeah, just did those two things.
And I was making chili oil at the time as well and so did the whole chili oil dip and then seasoned it with the hot chili mix. And honestly, it was the most in taste sensation in your mouth with all the numbing and everything. So I had to tone--
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah.
MEI LIN: --a lot of things down.
JAYMEE SIRE: That sounds incredible. I mean, I love fried chicken. Like you said, everybody loves fried chicken. I love Szechuan. As well the numbing is just like a sensation that if you haven't had it, it grabs you right away.
Are there any, from your travels, whether it was, like you said, that trip to Asia or anywhere else, like specific bites that you specifically remember that kind of sparked your inspiration?
MEI LIN: In terms of inspiration behind Daybird, not specifically. Just going to Nashville and just immersing yourself into the culture of the city. And there's just so much light in what everybody brings to the table. And so I kind of want to bring that to La.
JAYMEE SIRE: When you personally go to a restaurant, what kind of experience are you looking for? What excites you?
MEI LIN: What I'm looking for is when going to a restaurant, I just want simple, tasty, well seasoned, well executed food. That's kind of all it takes to make me happy these days, so.
JAYMEE SIRE: What are some of your favorite restaurants in LA or around the country?
MEI LIN: One of my favorite restaurants in LA is probably Angler. I think it's just also like a chef hangout. Try to go there pretty much every week. And it's just like a fun place to hang out, get a few bites, just sit at the bar, and kind of chitchat with the bartender. And I mean, yeah, that's pretty much like my go-to place in Los Angeles.
I'm actually currently in New York right now and eating some amazing food. Yesterday, I went to Lodi. I had a simple chicory salad with an anchovy vinaigrette. And that was perfectly seasoned, very beautiful to look at, and fantastic overall.
JAYMEE SIRE: Well, I have to put that on the list then. You mentioned your chili oil line. You are the creator of Umamei, a line of small batch chili oil and also XO sauce. I love both of those things. So for anyone who isn't familiar, what exactly is XO sauce and how would one us? It.
MEI LIN: XO sauce is a condiment. It's actually made with a bunch of dried seafood, traditionally with Jinhua ham, dried scallops, dried shrimp, and just kind of cooked chilies, garlic, and shallots. All those things are kind of cooked down each one separately and then just combine together in like a very, very light chili oil.
What's in mine is a little insane. And it's a very expensive condiment to make, by the way, with all the dried seafoods. Because there's different grades of dried seafood. You can grade it from ABCD. And obviously, the higher the grade, which is grade A, the most expensive.
And dry seafood is just amazing and packed so much flavor in Umamei. And the ingredients that I have in mind actually are, I have dried scallops. Although I try to source my ingredients obviously from reputable places.
But I get my dried scallops from Hokkaido in Japan. I do some dried anchovies. Those are from Japan as well. I do some the tiny baby, baby shrimp from Japan as well.
I add instead of Szechuan peppercorn, I add Sansho pepper, which is a lot more citrusy than your traditional Szechuan peppercorns, fried shallots, fried garlic, yeah, and some different salts and sugars.
JAYMEE SIRE: It sounds delicious. As for the chili oil, make a case for somebody that doesn't already have this condiment as a pantry staple already. I personally love it on eggs, of course, dumplings. How else can you use it to kind of punch up dishes at home?
MEI LIN: Honestly, you can put it in vinaigrettes. I mean, you can cook with it for sure, not just for topping it on a dish. You can use it in foods. My personal favorite is actually making fried rice and adding it to the fried rice when you're cooking it, not just topping it on.
But obviously, there's a lot of different chili oils and chili crisps out there. And everybody is very, very different. Some oil are a lot more spicier than others. I think at this point, I've tried a lot of different ones. And I personally like a lot of the spicier ones out in the market.
JAYMEE SIRE: What is yours like? Is it on the spicier end?
MEI LIN: Mine is insanely spicy. I actually used a blend of three chilies. I do Chile de árbol which is like extremely spicy. I do a gochugaru which is Korean chili flake. And I use Hunan chilies, which are on the milder side.
It's mostly Chile de árbol, so it's pretty spicy, I would say.
JAYMEE SIRE: So proceed with caution--
MEI LIN: Yes.
JAYMEE SIRE: --is what you're saying.
MEI LIN: Perfect.
JAYMEE SIRE: What other Asian pantry staples you feel like everyone is missing out on that you should have in your pantry?
MEI LIN: I think at this point, I think everybody has some sort of fish sauce in their pantry. That's definitely an umami booster. Don't just use it as a condiment. You can use it in dressings and you can cook with it as well. A little goes a long way.
Literally, you can add a drop to a dish and it will just boost everything up. I like to kind of balance it out with a lot of acid--
JAYMEE SIRE: Uh-huh.
MEI LIN: --and a little bit of sweetness as well, a little bit of sugar or honey will do wonders to that. And as well as any other pantry staples. Got to have chili oil, got to have fish sauce, and some sort of, I love Minus 8 vinegar. I've been using a lot of that.
It's basically ice wine vinegar made from ice wine. So it's on the sweeter side. There's no other flavor out there, just like that, so.
JAYMEE SIRE: I have to check that out. I love using fish sauce in my Caesar dressing, actually.
MEI LIN: Oh, amazing.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah.
MEI LIN: Instead of anchovies?
JAYMEE SIRE: Instead of anchovies. Yeah, exactly. That's what I thought. I have that always. I don't always have anchovies, so I love hearing that. Coming up next, Mei tells us what she's been working on with Food Network.
Obviously, you're no stranger to being on television. You won your season of Top Chef, which helped catapult your career even further. What was going through your head at that point in time? And what did you think was going to be your next step?
MEI LIN: Honestly, I had no idea what was in store. My mentor, Michael Voltaggio, actually, won his season. And I know he gave me a little bit of advice before I was leaving for the show. It was literally just put your head down, cook your best food, and forget about everything else around you. And that's kind of what stuck out to me and what I did, putting our head down and just working hard and just making tasty food.
JAYMEE SIRE: I mean, you definitely did that. And I read that sometime after that, you worked with Oprah a little bit--
MEI LIN: I did, yeah.
JAYMEE SIRE: --as a personal chef. I have to imagine that was an incredible experience as well. Can you tell us a little bit what that was like for you?
MEI LIN: Yeah. Actually, it's been seven years now. I basically started right after the show. One of my other chef mentors, he became her personal chef.
And I guess whenever she'd had more than six guests over at the house, he would call me up and I would just drive up to Santa Barbara and help him out. And then it kind of just became a regular thing. And then when he would go on vacations, I would cover his vacation.
So that's really how that kind of started. And yeah, we just spent the holidays together. And it was so much fun.
JAYMEE SIRE: Were you able to learn anything from her just from a business standpoint or anything like that?
MEI LIN: I mean, she's a force for sure.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah.
MEI LIN: And honestly, it's a lot of hard work. A lot of--
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah.
MEI LIN: --communication is key.
JAYMEE SIRE: Well, fast forward to now. You are the star and host of Food Network's The Lunar New Year Menu digital series where you gather some close friends, cook up some traditional dishes to celebrate. Can you kind of enlighten us a bit on the origins of the Lunar New Year?
MEI LIN: Well, Lunar New year is all about tradition and celebrating with family, just get togethers, period. Obviously, we're still in COVID and things are a little bit weird. But it's about getting everybody together and just celebrating the New Year and hoping to have a lot of abundance and good luck and well throughout the year.
It's not about just you. It's About everybody. It's about everybody around you. And I think that's what I love most about this holiday.
JAYMEE SIRE: What kind of foods and dishes are typical for this celebration and what do they symbolize?
MEI LIN: Tangerines are huge. Basically, any type of citrus-- some tangerines, pomelos, oranges-- they just symbolize wealth and good luck. There's a lot of veggie dishes. There's a whole steamed fish always.
And in my family, dumplings are a thing. We kind of make dumplings all day. And actually, the more dumplings you make, the more luck that you'll have throughout the entire year. But also dumplings, they look like the old currency from way back when in China, so like the old ingots. And so that's why it also symbolizes wealth.
And a lot of the different foods and symbolizations of Lunar New Year, they all kind of stem from the same thing. They all have something to do with prosperity and wealth and good luck. It's everything. Words come into play as well. And there's a lot of wordplay.
JAYMEE SIRE: What did celebrating Lunar New Year look like at your home growing up?
MEI LIN: My mom would get up super early and kind of had the whole spread on the table by 7 o'clock. It's insane because you can't eat certain foods until the end of the day because you want to offer it up as an offering to your loved ones and to different spirits and stuff like that before indulging in yourself.
But I always remember eating some poon choi, which is a vegetarian-- or not. No. It's not a vegetarian dish. But there's seaweed and different lettuces and a lot of different dried seafoods like abalone as well. So that was like the one thing I had to eat before leaving the house.
Everybody's household for Lunar New Year looks completely different. Everybody does something just a tad different from family to family. And that's really interesting.
JAYMEE SIRE: You kind of touched on it. What are some of the superstitions that you learned about when celebrating?
MEI LIN: You cannot clean your house the day of. You have to do all the cleaning prior to Lunar New Year because they say, the superstition is, if you clean or sweep on New Year's day, you're sweeping your luck away for the entire year. So you definitely want to do that prior to New Year's day. The same goes for washing your hair. Washing your hair, washing your luck away.
JAYMEE SIRE: OK.
MEI LIN: Those are the two that stick out to me the most because my mom still calls me to this day. She literally called me yesterday to remind me not to do that for the New Year. And the New Year is literally a week away.
JAYMEE SIRE: How do you celebrate nowadays in LA or wherever you happen to be for the holiday?
MEI LIN: It's literally just celebrating with food and with the people around me. I kind of like to mom people, I guess, and shove food in their face. But it all comes from love, right? So--
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah.
MEI LIN: --just putting it out there for others.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah. I mean, that's so cool that you get to share that on screen in this digital series. Can you give us a little inside scoop on what filming the series was like, who are some of the friends you invited to join you in cooking, and why did you choose them?
MEI LIN: Honestly, it was a blast shooting Lunar New Year Menu. I had so much fun. And I invited Jon Yao, Ryan Wong from Needle, Dina Saukam, she's a food writer and contributor to a bunch of different publications, my friend Jen Yee who owns Baker's Bench in Chinatown, serving some of the best vegan pastries that you'll ever have, and Tony Wen, a bunch of different people from the industry just serving a lot of great things. And it was just so much fun having to do that with everybody.
JAYMEE SIRE: Yeah. I know it sounds like a lot of fun. And for our listeners who maybe are catching this episode after Lunar New Year, are these recipes ones that can be made outside of the holiday or for belated celebrations?
MEI LIN: Oh, you can make them whenever you want, for sure. It's definitely things that you can eat throughout the entire year. And they're super easy to make. That's what's great about it. It's very simple.
And it's ingredients that you can find in your local store, which is great. I suggest everybody kind of get out there and get the recipes and make them for your Lunar New Year menu and for others.
JAYMEE SIRE: What about people that maybe aren't as into cooking or as proficient in the kitchen, are there special offerings that people can look out for this time of year at AAPI-owned businesses? Maybe, somebody wanted to try some of these celebratory foods that they can't get other times of the year.
MEI LIN: I know there are a lot of different places in Los Angeles that you can get a lot of different types of foods. But I actually put out a list on foodnetwork.com. And my favorite places to get different celebratory foods for the New Year, and one of them being Stick To Me Sweets here in New York.
And Susanna Yoon is actually putting out some of the best bonbons that I've ever had. She has these Lunar New Year, ones that are red and gold, which are traditional colors for Lunar New Year. That's one of the things that I would love to have on my table for Lunar New Year or just like throughout the year, in general, because she just has like some of the best flavors of bonbons that I've ever had. And it's obviously not something very traditional per se, but it's very fitting for the holiday.
JAYMEE SIRE: We'll definitely recommend to our listeners to check out that list, and of course, check out your series on Food Network, and still looking forward to seeing the entire thing, and of course, for people celebrating Lunar New Year out there. This has been such a blast hearing your story, your journey to how you've gotten to where you are right now.
We're going to finish things off with a little rapid fire round and then one final question, so. All right. Rapid fire questions. Night owl or early bird?
MEI LIN: Early bird.
JAYMEE SIRE: Favorite quick snack.
MEI LIN: Anchovies.
JAYMEE SIRE: What are you currently reading or listening to?
MEI LIN: I am currently reading Obama's Promised Land.
JAYMEE SIRE: What has been the best decision of your career?
MEI LIN: Getting to do Top Chef.
JAYMEE SIRE: Someone has 24 hours in LA, what should they do?
MEI LIN: Eat everything.
JAYMEE SIRE: Anything in particular?
MEI LIN: I send out everybody my list of restaurants. They're separated by neighborhoods, and so whenever someone's coming to LA, I literally shoot them that list. And I try to help everybody kind of get in into different places.
So it's definitely out there. If you want my list, you can definitely reach out to me and I'll happily give it to you.
JAYMEE SIRE: Next travel destination.
MEI LIN: Japan.
JAYMEE SIRE: Any foods you absolutely cannot stand.
MEI LIN: Blue cheese.
JAYMEE SIRE: On the flip side, food you could eat for the rest of your life and never get sick of.
MEI LIN: Fried chicken.
JAYMEE SIRE: I agree. I'm with you on that one. That might make an appearance in this final question. So this is the question we ask everybody at the very end of all of our episodes. And the question is, what would be on the menu for your perfect food day?
So we want to take you-- have you take us through the entire day-- breakfast, lunch, dinner, dessert. There are no rules, so you can travel, time travel, anyone can cook it for you, living or dead. Yeah, there's no rules. So we just want to hear what you're eating on an ideal food day.
MEI LIN: Honestly, take me back to Japan. I want to do soba super early in the morning for breakfast, take a walk throughout the day, stop into different shops, get some mochi, different like grilled mochis, like savory and sweet. And honestly, finishing off a sushi dinner, that's probably my best day ever.
JAYMEE SIRE: That sounds pretty perfect and very on brand. So thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us and share your stories. And of course, everybody check out your digital series on Food Network.
MEI LIN: Thank you so much for having me.
JAYMEE SIRE: You can catch more of Mei on The Lunar New Year Menu on foodnetwork.com. And as always, thanks so much for listening. Make sure you follow us wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss a thing.
And if you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review. We love it when you do that. That's all for now. We'll catch you foodies next Friday.
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